Im Going To Sccrrreeeeaaaaammmmmm.......

[zoeb2912]

so I have been posting lately about the problems im having in my tank. this is not an emergency and id like a discussion on what others think.

the tank is 180l.

the stock I have left;
10 cories 5 pandas 5 trilis
6/8 kuhlis
3 guppies show males
5 platies4 females 1 male (male not looking good)
1 peacock gudgeon female
1 ram
4 krib fry
1 bn male
snails

my ph was 9.5 in tank and 9 after tap water sitting for 24 hrs

nitrite 0 ammo 0 nitrate 7ish using nutrafin liquid test kit

chemicals, seachem prime, plant ferts, aqua carbon ae design,

feed tetra crisp, prima, hikari algea wafers/sinking wafers and frozen

have tried esha exit, esha 2000, octozin

have used ph down this last water change but hasn't worked

wc 50-80% weekly

2 internal filters, 2000lph with sponge, 800lph with ceramic and plastic balls.

air stone running

it all started when I woke up one morning to find 1 dead gourami the other with popeye and 1 tetra with popeye. both went on to die. snails have died to.

then lost a guppy which showed signs of swim bladder, again another guppy today died showing signs of swim bladder. all fish are flicking/flashing on everything, no external signs of anything wrong apart from the ram which is showing stress bars. some fish are hiding. 1 guppy is swimming funny cant explain but just not normal, sort of on the spot. all eat fine. poos can be red (from food?) or whitish with sort of gaps in it.

please I need ideas on what to do

 

[thereverendturtle]

That pH is just way to high for the fish you have. It would be good for lake Tanganykian cichlids. You may need to start using r.o. water and do no more than a 20% water change each week until you get the pH down to about 7. Then use r.o. mixed with a little bit of tap water, to keep the pH around 7.
Basically your fish are swimming in liquid rock. So this may be leading to all your problems.

 

[DrRob]

Aye, the pH there is likely due to the water being very hard. pH down is only going to push the pH without changing the hardness and hardness is more of an issue for your fish.

As rev says, you either need to look at switching your stock over to fish that like that sort of water or get into the playing with water game and go for RO or DI water as a source, unless you have another reliable water source available.

 

[Davo86]

What is the actual ph straight from the tap? from your post you say the tank ph went down when you added tap water? which would imply something in the tank is buffering it at that high level? You don't have any ocean rock or coral gravel in the tank at all?

 

[MBOU]

I think the OP said that water from the tap is 9.5 but if left to sit over night it drops to 9?

Our tap water at work (no more than an hour from essex) is 8.5 - 8.7. It really is liquid rock around here but generally its not causing too many problems.

Would definately agree with using RO water bring down the hardness and the ph though.

Also, the snails will probably have died becaus of the medication, none of those medications are good for invertebrates, some more so than others but all three treatments in the tank (even one after another) would have wiped them out...

Water hardness asides, the pop eye and swimbladder problems make me thing that its more likely (if not water) an internal bacterical problem. I always found the Interpet treatments were good for problems like this (about the only thing they are good for). They do one called 'anti internal bacteria' but I would use their 'swimbladder' treatment, same ingredients but much stronger.

That said, I wouldnt be treating anything until your hardness and ph are lower, a lot of the treatments wouldnt be very effective in such hard water conditions... a lot dont work very well if at all over a ph of 8.5.

If you do treat again and still have snails, stick them in a bucket with some water, they will be fine for a week in a bucket so long as they can escape and are kept warm.

 

[Davo86]

my ph was 9.5 in tank and 9 after tap water sitting for 24 hrs

Dunno I read that as My ph was 9.5 in the tank and 9 after adding tap water that had sat for 24hrs ???

 

[DrRob]

I agree that it can be read both ways. I'd initially read it like MBOU did, we'll see what the OP comes back with.

 

[coolie]

Coming out of the tap real high, and getting higher in the tank?

 

[zoeb2912]

That pH is just way to high for the fish you have. It would be good for lake Tanganykian cichlids. You may need to start using r.o. water and do no more than a 20% water change each week until you get the pH down to about 7. Then use r.o. mixed with a little bit of tap water, to keep the pH around 7.
Basically your fish are swimming in liquid rock. So this may be leading to all your problems.

Aye, the pH there is likely due to the water being very hard. pH down is only going to push the pH without changing the hardness and hardness is more of an issue for your fish.

As rev says, you either need to look at switching your stock over to fish that like that sort of water or get into the playing with water game and go for RO or DI water as a source, unless you have another reliable water source available.

What is the actual ph straight from the tap? from your post you say the tank ph went down when you added tap water? which would imply something in the tank is buffering it at that high level? You don't have any ocean rock or coral gravel in the tank at all?

I think the OP said that water from the tap is 9.5 but if left to sit over night it drops to 9?

Our tap water at work (no more than an hour from essex) is 8.5 - 8.7. It really is liquid rock around here but generally its not causing too many problems.

Would definately agree with using RO water bring down the hardness and the ph though.

Also, the snails will probably have died becaus of the medication, none of those medications are good for invertebrates, some more so than others but all three treatments in the tank (even one after another) would have wiped them out...

Water hardness asides, the pop eye and swimbladder problems make me thing that its more likely (if not water) an internal bacterical problem. I always found the Interpet treatments were good for problems like this (about the only thing they are good for). They do one called 'anti internal bacteria' but I would use their 'swimbladder' treatment, same ingredients but much stronger.

That said, I wouldnt be treating anything until your hardness and ph are lower, a lot of the treatments wouldnt be very effective in such hard water conditions... a lot dont work very well if at all over a ph of 8.5.

If you do treat again and still have snails, stick them in a bucket with some water, they will be fine for a week in a bucket so long as they can escape and are kept warm.

my ph was 9.5 in tank and 9 after tap water sitting for 24 hrs

Dunno I read that as My ph was 9.5 in the tank and 9 after adding tap water that had sat for 24hrs ???

I agree that it can be read both ways. I'd initially read it like MBOU did, we'll see what the OP comes back with.

Coming out of the tap real high, and getting higher in the tank?

Thanks for all your replies.

to clarify,
water straight from tap is 8,
water from tap after sitting for 24 hours is 9,
water in tank is 9.5.

There is no ocean rock or coral in the tank.

I did large (80-90%) water changes between dosing each medication.

2 of my fish are now showing signs of cotton mouth.

Is R.O water expensive?

Would I be able to keep my cories with cichlids?

How would I re-home my current fish if I was to change stock if they have problems?

Would I need to treat the cories if I decided to keep cichlids instead?

Thanks again.

 

[coolie]

This doesn't really make a lot of sense. Being that the PH scale is logarythmic, your water is coming out of the tap at 8 and left in a plastic bucket, is becoming 10 times more alkaline. The only explanation I can think of is you live in an extremely chalky area? giving you tons of chalk in your kettle?

 

[DrRob]

It does make sense. Tap water often has things like CO2 dissolved in it which can make quite a big difference to the pH and evaporates off during the first 24 hours.

 

[coolie]

Co2 makes water acidic, so why is the PH so high?

 

[daz4321]

water companies also add chemicals to alter the ph so that straight from the tap it is within guidelines. these chemicals normally disperse when left sitting for 24 hours.

 

[zoeb2912]

This doesn't really make a lot of sense. Being that the PH scale is logarythmic, your water is coming out of the tap at 8 and left in a plastic bucket, is becoming 10 times more alkaline. The only explanation I can think of is you live in an extremely chalky area? giving you tons of chalk in your kettle?

dunno about 'chalk' but everything the water touches gets covered in lime-scale.

do you want me to post what it says on my water company site?

 

[coolie]

Yeah, limescale is chalk along with a few other bits and pieces.