If You Stand Over Here, You Can Almost See The Sea...

[Underwurlde]

Ah, I see. Excellent.

Looks like he has got himself a good LFS to rely on

 

[Miss Wiggle]

Ah, I see. Excellent.

Looks like he has got himself a good LFS to rely on

yup, it'd be excellent if more lfs's did it

 

[STRiDER]

So many replies, so little time

Thanks for all the input from out there - it's nice to know I can use other people's knowledge and learn from their experience.

Here goes with all the new questions:

have you got a test kit and tested your water yet? if not then do you should be aiming for:
ph - around 7 (depends what fish you want though)
ammonia - 0
nitrite - 0
nitrate - under 40

have you thought through tank maintenance yet, what are your plans for upkeep?

you'll be able to grow some plants but not all. if you look in the planted forum there's loads of info on what plants grow well under low light and with no ferts. key thing to work out is your wpg, watts per gallon.

if you get into the planted side of things you can really go to town with Co2 and fertilisation, but lets walk before we run there's a lot to get your head around first!!

i wouldn't recommend discus for a first tank, that's not to say you *can't* have them, but you must be prepared to do an awful lot of research and work first and it'll probably be a bit of a baptism of fire!! How about angelfish instead of discus, they have a lot of similar qualities in they're behaviour and are lovely 'centerpiece' fish but looooads easier to look after than discus. how many gallons is your tank? i think a really nice stocking list would be 2 large shoals of small fish (12 of each), then 8-10 congo tetra's, and a pair of angels

LFS is out of test kits - will get one on Saturday to test everything. As Miss Wiggle suggested, I'm aiming at PH7.0 and temp at 26 deg C / 79 deg F. I had a sample of water tested at the LFS today and it seems fine.

As for maintenance : Still working out the details but something like this:
1. Daily - check for dead leaves (or fish ) and remove uneaten food. Check all equipment for serviceability.

2. Weekly - Change 25% of water. Add conditioners and fertilization (CO2 tablets) to new water. Test water. Wipe algae from glass.

3. Monthly - Vacuum gravel. Filter maintenance. Replace carbon in filter. Prune plants. Clean hood and lights.

As for the plants - I got them all free with the tank, so I figured I'll see which ones work and which not for the current setup. If a plant dies I'll just replace it with one thats doing well.

I also agree with your statement on Discuss - maybe for a second tank one day. I will later post my proposed community of fish for ya all to run by.

---------------

Very nice tank...
Swapping the blue bulb for a wite one will make the tank look a lot brights and help to bring the plants on alot better, are you planning on going planted with this tank? (look at some of the pics in the journals on the planted tank section)

I do hope you have a master test kit, if not i sugest you purchase one, some one on this forum once said "you don`t look after fih you look after water and the fish look after themselves" and its very true.

Thanks BigIan
I am planning on a partially (moderately) planted tank. The middle front will have a open space for small shoals to swim in. Im in the process of swapping the blue light, apparently it promotes algae growth and isnt too good for the plants. As I mentioned above, the test kit is high on the priority list.

--------------------

Hello again,

Can I ask, how much did you spend on that set up (not including fish & plants)?
Does it include CO2? (cant's see it in the list)
What plants have you added so far?
What substrate are you using?
How much water does your tank hold?

BTW, I think the optimal water temperature for tropical fish is 24°C (although, like you I cannot adjust lower than 26°C for some reason).

Andy

PS
A 2 week cycle does not seem very long, or have I missed something obvious?

Hi Andy
As for the cycling - The canister filter was cycling for 2 weeks in a heavily stocked cichlid tank. The powerhead filter was cycling for more than a month. I also introduced bacteria by means of a startup kit (bloody expensive one). The tetras have been in for 5 days now and they are very active with no signs of illness. I am planning to stock the tank at a rate of 2 fish per week.

As for cost - I live in South Africa and we tend to pay more as EVERYTHING is imported.
The setup (without fish and plants) were as follows
Tank, Cabinet, Filter, Lights, Heater, Powerhead, Thermometer, Magnetic Glass Cleaner : US$ 750
Substrate, Rock, Bogwood : US$ 150

The substrate is a sort of pea gravel (1mm to 5mm sizes). Looks like its from a riverbed somewhere.

The tank holds 380 litres (100 US Gallons) gross and I estimate 310 litres (82 US Gallons) Net.

-----------------------

Things I added in the meantime :

10 more plants
Spraybar for the filter return

Should finish the substrate and planting this weekend. Bogwood will come in later when its cured.
Also introducing two catfish over the weekend.

Thanks for all the input!!

 

[BigIan]

As for maintenance : Still working out the details but something like this:
1. Daily - check for dead leaves (or fish ) and remove uneaten food. Check all equipment for serviceability.

2. Weekly - Change 25% of water. Add conditioners and fertilization (CO2 tablets) to new water. Test water. Wipe algae from glass.

3. Monthly - Vacuum gravel. Filter maintenance. Replace carbon in filter. Prune plants. Clean hood and lights.

the checks you have as daily will become second nature to you over the coming weeks and months,

as for weekly you want to vac the gravel when you do your water change as the gravel hold ALOT of waste, uneaten food fish poo ect, and so you want to vac it to remove all of this before too much of it breaks down and starts poisoning your tank.

And filtermaintenance is more of an as and when its needed thing... you`l see the flow slow on the filter and thats a clue as to when you need to clean the filter,
Have you been told how to clean a filter? (i hate to be patronising but you`ve done all the right things so far it would be a bad idea to mess it up when you clean your filter)

1 clean your filter at the same time you do a water change as you need to clean the filter media in un chlorinated water and the tank water is ideal as it is what the bacteria live in already...

2 Don`t clean the media to well as its home to the bacteria and you don`t want to wash it all off, i generaly give my sponges a quick dip and a couple of squeezes....

3. don`t wash all your media at the same time just wash half of it so that way there is still a large colony in the filter to keep up.

4 Keep it up your doing great mate

 

[Underwurlde]

Consider also removing your black carbon filter (only use one after applying meds). In the vacant space I added another blue filter for more ammonia busting bacteria.

There are threads here on this topic but in a nutshell I think that carbon filters remove nutrients from the water which is what is needed to promote healthy plant growth.

Research this first though...


Andy

PS
SA cannot be anywhere near as expensive as poxy Britain (that's pronounced RipOffBritain if you're a local) and the weather is crap t'boot.

 

[STRiDER]

the checks you have as daily will become second nature to you over the coming weeks and months,

as for weekly you want to vac the gravel when you do your water change as the gravel hold ALOT of waste, uneaten food fish poo ect, and so you want to vac it to remove all of this before too much of it breaks down and starts poisoning your tank.

And filtermaintenance is more of an as and when its needed thing... you`l see the flow slow on the filter and thats a clue as to when you need to clean the filter,
Have you been told how to clean a filter? (i hate to be patronising but you`ve done all the right things so far it would be a bad idea to mess it up when you clean your filter)

1 clean your filter at the same time you do a water change as you need to clean the filter media in un chlorinated water and the tank water is ideal as it is what the bacteria live in already...

2 Don`t clean the media to well as its home to the bacteria and you don`t want to wash it all off, i generaly give my sponges a quick dip and a couple of squeezes....

3. don`t wash all your media at the same time just wash half of it so that way there is still a large colony in the filter to keep up.

Thanks BigIan
I really appreciate the finer details. So often people assume that I know all the basics and then I miss a thing or two.

About the filter, I knew to wash it gently in old tank water, but I would probably have washed the whole thing! Makes sense to do half the filter at a time.

-------------------

Consider also removing your black carbon filter (only use one after applying meds). In the vacant space I added another blue filter for more ammonia busting bacteria.

There are threads here on this topic but in a nutshell I think that carbon filters remove nutrients from the water which is what is needed to promote healthy plant growth.

Research this first though...

I read this in a book as well - but this is the first time someone has confirmed this.
I located an expert in aquatic plants that live about 2 hours drive from here. Will take a drive out on Saturday and run everything by him as well.
Makes sense to remove the carbon though.

 

[Underwurlde]

Hi again,

Here's more info on filter media. It's one of those 'must read' threads IMHO....

http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=139488

Andy

 

[Miss Wiggle]

Ian beat me to it with comments about maintenance. but he's dead on, you'll want to vac every week, we only clean the filter when the output drops, just keep an eye on it, then when you clean it remember your not trying to get it spotless, just get the gunk that's blocking it out.

I'd also say get rid of the carbon, it's great for removing meds or tannine's from the water but not a lot else. and once it's dying (only has a fairly short lifespan) it'll release all the nasties it's sucked up back into the water. best for putting in just after you've finished a course of medication for a couple of days and then removing

 

[STRiDER]

Hi All

Was suppose to study tonight, but alas - so much more rewarding working on my tank!!

Here's updated photos:

Aquascape almost complete:

Just need to add bogwood in right hand corner (not fully cured yet)

Also added a spraybar (Tetras general fitness should definately decline now

Also moved the filter into the cabinet

I added another 35 kilograms (80 lbs) of substrate; 10 more plants, bogwood and rock.
Also introduced two Bronze Corydoras Catfish. They seem to be in heaven

I also replaced 25% of water after conditioning and checking its temperature.

The water is still slightly murky due to substrate not being 100% clean (took me 4 hours to wash).

Hopefully tank will look better in a couple of days.

Planned for the weekend:
1. Replace blue actinic 40W with something else. I have no idea what. Please give suggestions.

2. Replace carbon with something else. Sponge media maybe (more bacteria?)

3. Test water with master test kit.

4. Maybe lengthen spraybar to full width of tank. (If LFS still have bar left)


One last question (for now) : How important is a backing for the tank? What colour is best? Has anyone ever considered using a mirror as backing or will this confuse the fish?

Regards
Andre

 

[BINKSY]

Hi, as you have plants you do need to remove the carbon sponge as suggested above.


Cheers Gordon

 

[n3ont3tra]

Hi, I just have a quick suggestion to add : Try gettion a few dense and tall background plants or a few "dangly" floating plants. I think it would make you're tank look fuller. For a tall background plant, I suggest either Anarcharis or Vallis. Vallis gets larger, and is more grassy looking, and Anarcharis looks like plants you would find in a lake or something.

 

[STRiDER]

Hi, I just have a quick suggestion to add : Try gettion a few dense and tall background plants or a few "dangly" floating plants. I think it would make you're tank look fuller. For a tall background plant, I suggest either Anarcharis or Vallis. Vallis gets larger, and is more grassy looking, and Anarcharis looks like plants you would find in a lake or something.

Thanks NeonTetra

I added tall growing plants behind the rock thats in the middle of the tank. They are currently too small to see but will hopefully grow.

I also started researching CO2 now. Maybe early next year

 

[Underwurlde]

IMHO #1: Add a 'proper' (i.e. from LFS) shiny black background.

IMHO #2:Lighting- 1x Arcadia 'Original', 1x Arcadia 'Freshwater'. Aim for about 2W/Gal MINIMUM in a planted tank.

Do that & the colours in the tank will look more vibrant.

Also research BGA (i.e. algae). I think the 'freshwater' bulb promotes this & hence you may want to consider a 'yellow' alternative.

Also get a timer for the lights. I suggest 4hrs on, 2off, 4hrs on. (The lighting siesta reduces the possiblity of algae).

Andy

 

[Miss Wiggle]

looks really good Andre

few comments and answers!

Also introduced two Bronze Corydoras Catfish. They seem to be in heaven - they much prefer to be in groups of 6+ get a few more and they'll be a lot livlier and happier

The water is still slightly murky due to substrate not being 100% clean (took me 4 hours to wash). - this will clear with time, regular small water changes will help as well.

1. Replace blue actinic 40W with something else. I have no idea what. Please give suggestions. - the arcadia lights are the best IMO, look for the one's that say 'good for plant growth' something like that on

2. Replace carbon with something else. Sponge media maybe (more bacteria?) - yes more sponge would be good, or floss, or ceramic media or bio balls depending how big the space is. you've loads of options, I would go with something different to what you've already got in there, variety is the spice of life! lol

3. Test water with master test kit. - yes, good, post your stats if your not sure of anything.

4. Maybe lengthen spraybar to full width of tank. (If LFS still have bar left) - if you like

One last question (for now) : How important is a backing for the tank? What colour is best? Has anyone ever considered using a mirror as backing or will this confuse the fish? - it's mostly important just for you and for what you see, just pick one you like. I'd highly recommend going for the most plain or 'natural' looking one you can, trust me you'll regret it later if you get something that looks 'cool' now like roman ruins etc. yes you could use a mirror, some tanks have a mirror built in as a background. not suitable for highly agressive fish such as betta splendens as they'll spend the whole time trying to fight they're reflection, but for a standard community set up it'd be fine if that's what you want. personally i just think plain black is best, you can buy one from your lfs, but just coloured card would work too

 

[STRiDER]

Thanks Miss Wiggle!

Im definately planning on more Bronze Cats

See my current proposed stock here Stock Proposal

Water is still a bit murky. There is a lot of small debris on the substrate. (Floats up when I disturb the substrate) Should I consider vacuuming the substrate maybe?

I replaced the carbon today with ceramic media, I'm getting Seachem Purigen next month to put in its place though.

I could only get a PH and NO2 Test kit (LFS out of master kits)

Results: PH 8.0
NO2 is 0.

I'm aiming of a PH of 7.0 but I did a big water change on Friday so I will see if the PH maybe drop by itself over the next week.

I decided on a slightly shiny black background. Will hopefully sort it out this week.

Thanks for all the help!!!