Idiots Guide?

bmonki

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Hi guys, planning to get a second tank to satisfy my marine cravings, looking at a juwel 190 corner tank, and was hoping someone could provide me with a basic idiots guide of how to set up a reef/marine tank.
It comes with the juwel internal filter and a heater, would I need any extra hardware?

How do I go about setting up and cycling marine style? Where do I get the water? I'm a complete noob to marine but have a tropical tank running.

Any help appreciated
 
Hi there, First thing first. Source someone to drill the tank for you and set up PVC. Also get a sump system sorted out as well. Does help a lot.
 
You could run a filter but I wouldn't have any media/sponges in it. They make nitrates and you don't want that in your marine system.
 
I would talk to your LFS to see if they can give you RO water or ready made salt water. If you can't source it you'll need to look into a RO system.
 
Also need quite a large skimmer too.
 
I did spy quite a few containers of water labelled 'RO' last time I went to the lfs so I would imagine they do sell it. What's pvc? And what's the difference between a filter and sump? And lastly it's the cycling completely different in that you don't want nitrates then? How do you get rid of the ammonia etc without a filter :s

This is gonna be a massive learning curve I can see it already, but I love love love the look of marine fish so hopefully it'll be worth it!
 
Try starting here, and ask on from there.
 
MARC
 
Thanks :)

Well the tank has been got and is sitting in my living room, step one done! The previous owner was going to use as marine and said he uprated the pump in the filter to be strong enough for marine so I won't need a powerhead... Does that sound right?

what's the purpose of having a sump? Also what can I use for one? The new tank has a cabinet so presumably I can hide the sump if we do one under there.

What's the most important thing to do first?
 
he uprated the pump in the filter to be strong enough for marine so I won't need a powerhead... Does that sound right?
 
Hmmm...probably not. Depends how the flow is directed though and the LR arrangement. Sometimes you can get away with one source of flow (particularly to start out with for just LR and CUC) but usually it results in dead spots that start building up annoying algaes and other growth, even if that one point of flow is gigantic. Usually it's smaller tanks that can get away with a single source. I have a tank of similar volume and it currently has 4 points of flow, although it started out with only two.
 
 
 
what's the purpose of having a sump?
 
 
Extra volume = extra stability and space to put stuff. 
 
 
 
Also what can I use for one?
 
 
Skimmer, extra live rock, inverted day/night lighting cycle with macroalgae for pH stabilitzation, etc.
 
 
 
 
What's the most important thing to do first? 
 
 
Determine whether you want/can have the sump! If you need to drill the tank, that absolutely has to be done first before any other setup. Otherwise, if you decide you want a sump later, you'd have to do an overflow, which can be a bit more bother to maintain. If you can drill the tank (make sure the glass is safe to drill first - not all tanks are) and the added water volume won't cause you weight distribution problems on your floor, then a sump is a good thing to have whether you do it drilled or with an overflow.
 
Donya said:
he uprated the pump in the filter to be strong enough for marine so I won't need a powerhead... Does that sound right?
 
Hmmm...probably not. Depends how the flow is directed though and the LR arrangement. Sometimes you can get away with one source of flow (particularly to start out with for just LR and CUC) but usually it results in dead spots that start building up annoying algaes and other growth, even if that one point of flow is gigantic. Usually it's smaller tanks that can get away with a single source. I have a tank of similar volume and it currently has 4 points of flow, although it started out with only two.
 
 Ok so I'll need at least one powerhead then? The filter is fixed in the back corner of the tank so its in the middle of the tank essentially.
 

what's the purpose of having a sump?
 
 
Extra volume = extra stability and space to put stuff. 
 
 Ok sounds sensible then
 
Also what can I use for one?
 
 
Skimmer, extra live rock, inverted day/night lighting cycle with macroalgae for pH stabilitzation, etc.

Can I just use a small tank for a sump tank or do I have to get a specific thing?
 
 
 
 
What's the most important thing to do first? 
 
 
Determine whether you want/can have the sump! If you need to drill the tank, that absolutely has to be done first before any other setup. Otherwise, if you decide you want a sump later, you'd have to do an overflow, which can be a bit more bother to maintain. If you can drill the tank (make sure the glass is safe to drill first - not all tanks are) and the added water volume won't cause you weight distribution problems on your floor,
a sump is a good thing to have whether you do it drilled or with an overflow.


how go I find out if it can be drilled? Its a jewel 190 trigon. Weight isn't an issue, one of the upsides of living in a concrete house lol, under or laminate is solid concrete ;)
I couldn't edit my post properly as on mobile, its in the quote bit too lol
 
how go I find out if it can be drilled? Its a jewel 190 trigon.
 
Tempered glass tanks are not safe to drill (likely to damage the tank). Some tanks have only tempered bottoms and are ok to drill on the sides. However, my biggest tank came with great big "do not drill" stickers all over it since it's tempered on all sides I guess. I don't know anything about what is/isn't tempered on jewel series tanks as I've never seen one in person (don't think they're available on my side of the pond). 
 
Can I just use a small tank for a sump tank or do I have to get a specific thing?
 
Up to you. You can use any container that will fit really. A second aquarium would work fine. Some people do special construction on them though with extra panels and such. Not having had a sump on any tank myself I can't give much detail there.
 
 
Ok so I'll need at least one powerhead then? The filter is fixed in the back corner of the tank so its in the middle of the tank essentially. 
 
Probably. You don't have to get one right away though. You can add a bit of rock and thing have a think about where other flow points will need to go. Do budget for one though since it's rare for a tank that size to be ok long-term with a single point of flow.  
 
Fab thanks, you're being very patient with me lol, I realise these are probably Stoopid questions :)

How does advice from the lfs usually fare for marine? I know with tropical they normally give bad advice, should I be wary of advice with this too?
 
That's what we're here for. :) The only stupid question is one not asked! 
 
Depends on the LFS. If you have one that you don't trust for tropical, then I wouldn't trust it for marine either. Sometimes you get a LFS where the people running it are experts, or where they have at least one guru on hand who does all the advising, but those are rare gems and would have good tropical advice too. Outside of those cases, you can get some pretty dingy marine advice. For example if you are looking for sump advice, like how to construct them, the first thing I'd recommend is to take a look through journals where sump designs have been posted to get at least a general idea of what you'd be after before heading to a LFS to see what they can do for you as far as either helping with a build or a pre-made one.
 
On the topic of sumps, I just remembered that BigTuna's journal has a good sump diagram in it for example with some good text explaining it (page 13).
 
Ooh perfect thanks :)

Hubby doesn't want to drill the tank, he suggested an empty external canister filter and put live rock in... Feasible?
 
Absolutely, although two things to be aware of. First, a canister does not replace a sump in terms of extra water volume since it adds so little, so you will need to keep that in mind when stocking the tank (it will behave more like a sump-less tank when new). Second, to avoid crud buildup problems in the canister you'll want to prefilter the intake. Just wrap some sponge or bit of filter pad around the intake to keep food in the tank where stuff can eat it. You should then clean the prefilter or change it (depending on the material really) with your regular weekly maintenance.
 
If you read around about canisters in marine on the web or talk to random people in the hobby, you will encounter a lot of hate for canister filters. They carry the "nitrate factory" myth with them, which is a situation that happens when you don't manage them up properly, specifically failure to prefilter and maintain them when they obviously need it. Canisters will turn into a "nitrate factory" when food and other large stuff gets sucked away and trapped where it decays, and it often happens with overfeeding (having to add more food because it gets sucked away). But, it is possible to be smart about it and canisters can work great when you manage them correctly, particularly for tanks that don't have built-in compartments for storing chemical media and/or extra LR. I have two canisters on my similarly-sized tank: one for chemical media since it's small and one for LR rubble. I maintain the small one at each WC, changing the media as needed. The large one I only had to check regularly when it was new and now I only look at it out of curiosity; it never slows down or clogs. The reason for that is that canisters that are for extra LR eventually develop their own internal fauna of worms and tiny Crustaceans that will help keep them clean and flowing well (but it takes time to develop and also won't happen so much in chemical media-only canisters).
 

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