Ideas for stock?!

[DutchMuch]

Man, you really are rude aren't you?

I wouldn't consider myself rude, just blunt, rude you assumed so though...

 

[Halie201]

I wouldn't consider myself rude, just blunt, rude you assumed so though...

"may seem rude" under your avatar. Seems legit. I get being blunt, I actually prefer it. But I suppose I am a somewhat sensitive woman who found your bluntness on the rude side. But I lived and have accepted it for what it is. My stocking has issues and I'll do what I feel is best to address them. ☺

 

[DutchMuch]

. But I suppose I am a somewhat sensitive woman who found your bluntness on the rude side.

Suck it up buttercup

 

[Halie201]

I think.. I think I hate you lol

 

[DutchMuch]

That must stink... sorry for your loss. This forum is a safe space forum, hatred isn't aloud. We must makeup now and be best friends forever!
random emoji things

 

[Halie201]

Okay. I'm sorry I'm so sensitive & I'll work on it. & you're sorry thag you're so blunt that sometimes it seems harsh so you're gonna work on it (tho not likely, hahah ) Wanna shake on it? Newb+rudes=bff4l ♥ omg lolz smh lmao frfr & all that nonsense

 

[DutchMuch]

Sure

 

[Byron]

H'm, seems my post got in twice...not much with computers.

 

[Byron]

Those tanks are beautiful! I have always loved planted tanks but never got into them because I was scared it was too much. I was just really getting into the hobby and it seemed to add more confusion than anything and I didn't want to make it harder on myself. I know there are a lot of benefits with planted tanks.. Though I'm not sure if the clowns would dig up plants if I decided to give it a go?

So, other than angels and gourami, what other slightly bigger fish do you think would look flashy in the tank with the clowns? Now i'm just looking for options outside of those two. I went with those because I was most familiar with them but if my options are open, I'm open for more suggestions on different communities. I do like both pairs of fish you stated tho (angels/bleeding hearts or gourami/tetras). I, too, prefer to have more smaller fish than a few bigger ones. I think it looks better and i love colors & personality so schooling fish are cool with me. You are obviously very knowledgeable so I'll likely kill you with questions. Pardon in advance.

Thank you for the kind words. And questions are never a problem. I've been in this hobby for 25+ years, and over the last 8 since I retired I have carried out considerable research particular on fish habitat and species.

Live plants are not all that difficult, but there are other options. Decent light is the main thing with plants; if you look at those photos which span 8+ years you will see I have pretty much the same plant species. This is because they work under my light. I've tried others, but stay with what thrives under the conditions I am prepared to provide. It is fish first with me, always, so the plants have to be those that will manage.

A non-plant option is lots of wood. Sand substrate, chunks of bogwood, branches, maybe dried leaves on the sand. This is a very authentic habitat for most soft water fish from South America and SE Asia. You can start with something like this, and then add maybe one plant like Java Fern that grows attached to wood, is very undemanding, but adds some green. Floating plants are the easiest to maintain, and will grow in most any tank; this gives the benefit of fast-growing plants, and provides shade which these fish do appreciate. The majority of fish we maintain never see direct sunlight, but it is filtered through forest canopy, marginal vegetation, or floating plants.

"Slightly bigger" fish is not easy. I find that the larger shoaling fish like the Congo Tetra will work for this. Once you get much larger, predatory issues begin to emerge if smaller fish are intended too.

 

[DutchMuch]

H'm, seems my post got in twice...not much with computers.

it did that to me earlier, It told me to wait 18 seconds I was "wait I haven't posted all day ?" then I saw it duplicated my post or something like yours.
Not tech savvy either bud lol

 

[Halie201]

I'm reading a lot of back and forth information about both angels and gouramis... A lot of people saying both species do best as a single or a single pair - although mating may cause more aggression. When reading about groups of either fish, there are a lot of people I'm seeing that don't advise it or have horror stories about keeping them in schools of 5 or 6. Would this have to do with their sex? As in, would I need to get 2xmales & 4xfemales? Or all males? Just wanted to clear that up when considering either of those as the medium sized mid/top dweller. I woukd hate to watch a wrestling match, see any die or have to return them for aggression towards each other.

 

[Byron]

I'm reading a lot of back and forth information about both angels and gouramis... A lot of people saying both species do best as a single or a single pair - although mating may cause more aggression. When reading about groups of either fish, there are a lot of people I'm seeing that don't advise it or have horror stories about keeping them in schools of 5 or 6. Would this have to do with their sex? As in, would I need to get 2xmales & 4xfemales? Or all males? Just wanted to clear that up when considering either of those as the medium sized mid/top dweller. I woukd hate to watch a wrestling match, see any die or have to return them for aggression towards each other.

I was going to go into this more yesterday, but the conversation moved away from angelfish and gourami.

Angelfish and gourami are very similar in that males are territorial. Different species of gourami can exhibit this to varying degrees; some just poke one another, some tear into each other until one is dead. In some species, females can be just as nasty. And sometimes the aggression turns to other non-gourami species; this is especially true with the species Trichopodus trichopterus, which unfortunately is so commonly available; it has several varieties--Blue, Gold, Cosby, Three-Spot, Marble, and others--which are all developed from the one species, so they all share these traits. Cichlids can be similar, though most species do have fairly strong territorial instincts.

Gourami are usually best in a small group. The more docile species work well this way. Pairs are sometimes suggested, but generally this means the male can get quite pushy toward the female, even to the point of killing her if she doesn't "respond." Having a ratio of one male and two or three females usually solves this. Again species vary, and of course individuals within a species can vary too. The tank space also plays into this, along with the decor; lots of thick plants always suit gourami tanks because the fish are not in each other's faces, so to speak. But yet again, this works well with some species and less well with certain others. I will attach a photo of my 70g as it was back when I had gourami and rasbora [the dark splootches on the far right are leaves of a houseplant, not in the tank]. There were six Chocolate Gourami and six or seven pygmy sparkling gourami, with a shoal of some 9 or 10 Trigonostigma hengeli which is related to the more common Harlequin Rasbora. I may have had a group of 12 dwarf rasbora, Boraras brigittae, as well. But the point is the thick plants. Gourami are very sedate fish and don't need swimming room, but they spend their day cruising among plants and branches. They need floating plants, always, if we want to provide for their needs. Many species build bubblenests among the dangling roots, and the fry can hide there. My Chocolates and Pygmy gourami both spawned in this tank, and several fry grew to maturity [I let nature take its course usually].

Now to the angelfish. Angelfish are shoaling fish by nature, living in relatively small (compared to the groups of hundreds for characins, corydoras, etc) groups. They will have a definite pecking order or hierarchy within the group, which is why (like the loaches) the group must be combined at the same time and not added to down the road. Males will rarely if ever accept another male into an existing shoal, and sometimes not females either. The problem with a group of angelfish, assuming males and females are present (it is not at all easy to tell in immature fish), is that they will pair off. At that point, it is often necessary to remove either the rest of the angelfish, or remove the pair. Additional pairs may obviously form, especially once the dominant pair is gone. This means more tanks or disposing of fish. In very large tanks you can get away with leaving the group, but not usually in a 4-foot tank.

Some will advise getting a pair only. With cichlids, the fish must select their own mates. Putting a male/female together of most any species usually doesn't work. They may spawn a few times, but then the male (usually) turns on the female and kills her if she is not removed. You can select a bonded pair (once you know the signs it is not too difficult to spot these in store tanks), remembering that they will spawn and tankmates may have some issues, or you can leave the pair in their own tank, or with cories that are usually left alone. This is how aquarists who want to breed angelfish usually proceed. If the pair really bonded, this tends to work. But putting any two fish together rarely does.

Keeping a lone angelfish is possible. I personally do not recommend this, as it is contrary to nature--this is not a solitary species but a shoaling one--and I do not like deliberately setting up a situation that is not in the best interests of the fish when I can avoid it. Not that it won't work, but as we cannot begin to put ourselves in the fish's frame of mind, I can't assume this is really good humane treatment. If you get a group, it must be five or more; there is now a scientific study that determined aggression is significantly increased in angelfish if the group is below five.

Byron.

 

[Halie201]

I was going to go into this more yesterday, but the conversation moved away from angelfish and gourami.

Angelfish and gourami are very similar in that males are territorial. Different species of gourami can exhibit this to varying degrees; some just poke one another, some tear into each other until one is dead. In some species, females can be just as nasty. And sometimes the aggression turns to other non-gourami species; this is especially true with the species Trichopodus trichopterus, which unfortunately is so commonly available; it has several varieties--Blue, Gold, Cosby, Three-Spot, Marble, and others--which are all developed from the one species, so they all share these traits. Cichlids can be similar, though most species do have fairly strong territorial instincts.

Gourami are usually best in a small group. The more docile species work well this way. Pairs are sometimes suggested, but generally this means the male can get quite pushy toward the female, even to the point of killing her if she doesn't "respond." Having a ratio of one male and two or three females usually solves this. Again species vary, and of course individuals within a species can vary too. The tank space also plays into this, along with the decor; lots of thick plants always suit gourami tanks because the fish are not in each other's faces, so to speak. But yet again, this works well with some species and less well with certain others. I will attach a photo of my 70g as it was back when I had gourami and rasbora [the dark splootches on the far right are leaves of a houseplant, not in the tank]. There were six Chocolate Gourami and six or seven pygmy sparkling gourami, with a shoal of some 9 or 10 Trigonostigma hengeli which is related to the more common Harlequin Rasbora. I may have had a group of 12 dwarf rasbora, Boraras brigittae, as well. But the point is the thick plants. Gourami are very sedate fish and don't need swimming room, but they spend their day cruising among plants and branches. They need floating plants, always, if we want to provide for their needs. Many species build bubblenests among the dangling roots, and the fry can hide there. My Chocolates and Pygmy gourami both spawned in this tank, and several fry grew to maturity [I let nature take its course usually].

Now to the angelfish. Angelfish are shoaling fish by nature, living in relatively small (compared to the groups of hundreds for characins, corydoras, etc) groups. They will have a definite pecking order or hierarchy within the group, which is why (like the loaches) the group must be combined at the same time and not added to down the road. Males will rarely if ever accept another male into an existing shoal, and sometimes not females either. The problem with a group of angelfish, assuming males and females are present (it is not at all easy to tell in immature fish), is that they will pair off. At that point, it is often necessary to remove either the rest of the angelfish, or remove the pair. Additional pairs may obviously form, especially once the dominant pair is gone. This means more tanks or disposing of fish. In very large tanks you can get away with leaving the group, but not usually in a 4-foot tank.

Some will advise getting a pair only. With cichlids, the fish must select their own mates. Putting a male/female together of most any species usually doesn't work. They may spawn a few times, but then the male (usually) turns on the female and kills her if she is not removed. You can select a bonded pair (once you know the signs it is not too difficult to spot these in store tanks), remembering that they will spawn and tankmates may have some issues, or you can leave the pair in their own tank, or with cories that are usually left alone. This is how aquarists who want to breed angelfish usually proceed. If the pair really bonded, this tends to work. But putting any two fish together rarely does.

Keeping a lone angelfish is possible. I personally do not recommend this, as it is contrary to nature--this is not a solitary species but a shoaling one--and I do not like deliberately setting up a situation that is not in the best interests of the fish when I can avoid it. Not that it won't work, but as we cannot begin to put ourselves in the fish's frame of mind, I can't assume this is really good humane treatment. If you get a group, it must be five or more; there is now a scientific study that determined aggression is significantly increased in angelfish if the group is below five.

Byron.

Gracious.. My brain is on overload with all of this info you're throwing at me. All very good info, but definitely a lot. Now I feel even more confused on how to stock, lol. I feel more knowledgeable on the two above but I'm not sure if it aided in my choice or made it harder. They both seem to be.. Risky, with the sexes and aggression & would be taking a chance with either. The angels seem even more complicated than the gouramis.. Gosh, what to do.. I mean, would I be better off just going in a totally different direction with this? I am such an indecisive person and I just want to make the right one. I'm not sure which of those to go with now, of either. Or should I opt for smaller, more abundant/less aggressive fish..? I know cichlids in general are aggressive so that probably wouldn't be the way to go. As I've done thag before as well and I must not have stocked correctly because they slowly, one by one, killed each other despite having about 10 to start with and several hiding spots. I do think, now, that my Ph may have been too low for them, though. - although I do love the species. they're beautiful and have a lot of personality and give great movement to the tank. Anyway, I just don't want a bunch of tiny fish. But I'm scared to go with these medium sized fish that may cause so many problems in my tank in the future when it comes to sexes and breeding. Uugghhhhhh

 

[Byron]

Gracious.. My brain is on overload with all of this info you're throwing at me. All very good info, but definitely a lot. Now I feel even more confused on how to stock, lol. I feel more knowledgeable on the two above but I'm not sure if it aided in my choice or made it harder. They both seem to be.. Risky, with the sexes and aggression & would be taking a chance with either. The angels seem even more complicated than the gouramis.. Gosh, what to do.. I mean, would I be better off just going in a totally different direction with this? I am such an indecisive person and I just want to make the right one. I'm not sure which of those to go with now, of either. Or should I opt for smaller, more abundant/less aggressive fish..? I know cichlids in general are aggressive so that probably wouldn't be the way to go. As I've done thag before as well and I must not have stocked correctly because they slowly, one by one, killed each other despite having about 10 to start with and several hiding spots. I do think, now, that my Ph may have been too low for them, though. - although I do love the species. they're beautiful and have a lot of personality and give great movement to the tank. Anyway, I just don't want a bunch of tiny fish. But I'm scared to go with these medium sized fish that may cause so many problems in my tank in the future when it comes to sexes and breeding. Uugghhhhhh

You're understanding that there is more to stocking a given aquarium than merely fish mass to water volume, so you are well on your way to being an exemplary aquarist.

Angelfish are not "easy" fish. Gourami are much less difficult. It has been more than 30 years since I last kept and spawned angelfish, as they do restrict things. If you want "largish" centrepiece fish, I would really consider the Pearl Gourami. In a 90g, I would look at 7-11 with more females than males by not by much. Don't rush in. Or another simiular-sized fish would be Congo Tetra, like those shown in my 90g photo. I like these as they remain mid-tank, sparkle as the light strikes them through floating plants, and are very peaceful. There are lots of smaller shoaling fish to combine with either of these, and many substrate-level fish.

I prefer commenting on fish you may mention, rather than suggesting fish to you. This is your aquarium, so it should have what you want. I consider my function to be one of guidance for the health of your fish, and success for you. A tank of squabbling and dying fish can quickly turn one off the hobby.

Byron.

 

[Halie201]

You're understanding that there is more to stocking a given aquarium than merely fish mass to water volume, so you are well on your way to being an exemplary aquarist.

Angelfish are not "easy" fish. Gourami are much less difficult. It has been more than 30 years since I last kept and spawned angelfish, as they do restrict things. If you want "largish" centrepiece fish, I would really consider the Pearl Gourami. In a 90g, I would look at 7-11 with more females than males by not by much. Don't rush in. Or another simiular-sized fish would be Congo Tetra, like those shown in my 90g photo. I like these as they remain mid-tank, sparkle as the light strikes them through floating plants, and are very peaceful. There are lots of smaller shoaling fish to combine with either of these, and many substrate-level fish.

I prefer commenting on fish you may mention, rather than suggesting fish to you. This is your aquarium, so it should have what you want. I consider my function to be one of guidance for the health of your fish, and success for you. A tank of squabbling and dying fish can quickly turn one off the hobby.
Byron.

Well the main reason I ask for suggestions is because I am not familiar with all types of fish, or their temperaments, needs, etc. I haven't been keeping fish that long so I am only fairly familiar with the small amount I've kept & I like to learn about others and experiences with them.. I'm not terribly picky lol. Just very open and curious.

The problem with getting the male to female ratio right is that I'm pretty sure I'd have to order online, as the only LFS in my area doesn't offer them.. Doesn't offer many fish, to be honest. Much less healthy fish lol. So I stray away from them as much as possible. And I don't know if ordering online allows for sex preferences. Would I just have to hope for the best? I think I'd definitely go with the gouramis over the Congo. Though I like them, I would rather have something a little larger that offers a little difference in visual looks than the congos.