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Ich?

BettaMan2000

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I put a small BN pleco in my tank yesterday from pets at home, three of my cardinal tetras are suddenly covered in tiny white spots, it looks like air bubbles.

What do I do?

The only change has been the pleco, should I take him back or could it be the tetras that are also a recent addition but been a good few days earlier than the plec, they did seem a bit more stressed when the plec went in, don't know if this might have been a causal trigger, or the tetras have had it already and its only manifested itself now?

More importantly how do I treat ich, if it is that, I've got a tetra starter line 54 tank and the heater is fixed at 25 deg C, so can't raise the temp, also I don't want to kill the fish by adding salt.
 
There are several commercial ich treatments available, many are cheap. Follow directions and remove any carbon in your filter. Many don’t require raising temps.

You may need to remove the pleco for treatment, I’ve never kept them so I’m not sure if they can handle the meds, some species can’t.


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I'm seriously thinking of complaining to pets at home too and take the pleco back, but they might end up saying its your cardinals that have given our fish (pleco) ich?

Oh man, should I complain or not, its not right they're selling ill fish too
 
If several fish have multiple white spots (ich) it has been a few days. It is generally believed that ich may be present in most tanks permanently, but healthy fish will build up a resistance/immunity, for lack of better words. But severe stress triggers an outbreak. One thing is a certainty: ich is directly caused by stress if the parasite is present.

There is no point in removing any fish (unless you don't want them) as the ich multiplies extraordinarily rapidly and for all you know all fish could be carrying it. The gills are the first area attacked by ich, and the spots are not externally visible; signs of flashing usually occur long before any external spots can be seen elsewhere on the fish. Healthy fish not under stress may flash but that is as far as it goes.

The most effective treatment is salt and heat; this was brought home to me by Dr. Neale Monks. A few fish are unable to tolerate either the salt or the increased heat, but for most this is the preferred method, and definitely the most effective even in stubborn cases. I have treated some quite sensitive wild caught fish using salt and increased temperature, including cories, characins and loaches.

You mention the pleco and cardinal tetra...are there any other fish species? If not, I recommend the following, which is the method given to me by Dr. Monks. Raising the temperature has the effect of increasing the life cycle of ich, and it can even be killed at 90F/32C if the species can tolerate this but I needn't go into this as you cannot increase temperature.

Do a major water change, around 60-70% (assuming parameters between tap and tank water are the same or very close). Add salt at the level of 2 grams per liter; one level teaspoon of dry salt is approximately 6 grams, so this treats 3 liters of tank water. When calculating the tank volume, allow for displacement by substrate and decor, and underestimate rather than over. Dissolve the salt completely in a jar of water and then pour it in; never add salt crystals directly as they can burn fish, plants and invertebrates. Add the dissolved salt slowly, over a few hours. At the end of the first week (seven days), do a partial water change of 50%, add sufficient salt for only the replacement water. At the end of the second week, do another 50% water change but do not add salt. The rest will be removed with future water changes. One week can sometimes work, but as you cannot raise the temperature I would go for two weeks.

Salt is dangerous to all freshwater fish, no argument, which is why it should only be used as a specific treatment, and with fish less likely to have problems. The level suggested is sufficient to deal with ich and velvet as these two parasites are very similar. Other medications are usually much more dangerous, if they even work.
 
The Tetra Starter Line 54 is a 54 litre tank, measuring 60 x 30 x 30 cm. That's 14.3 gallons, and 24 x 12 x 12 inches.
https://www.tetra.net/en/en/products/tetra-starter-line-led-aquarium

I doubt very much that Pets@Home will accept the bristlenose back if there is ich in the tank. To be honest I wouldn't buy fish from there either.

BettaMan, have you been monitoring the ammonia and nitrite levels in the tank since you got the cardinals? I know that you did not do a fishless cycle and are relying on plants to remove the ammonia from the fish, but you do need to monitor the levels in case the plants aren't taking up all the ammonia. Ammonia in the water is one form of stress for fish.



One other question - did you get a new heater? The one that comes with the tank is pre-set to 25 deg C and can't get the water any warmer.
 
Thanks for all the responses, I've kept an eye on all the nitrite and nitrate levels with a test kit, all seemed fine until I added the last fish, I did get a spike that went to the second colour in the nitrite, but since then its gone back to minimal level.

The heater is the standard one that comes with the tank, think I mentioned this earlier

Btw: Is this standard table salt I need to add to my tank?
 
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I've kept an eye on all the nitrite and nitrate levels with a test kit, all seemed fine until I added the last fish, I did get a spike that went to the second colour in the nitrite, but since then its gone back to minimal level.

What about ammonia? If you've had a nitrite spike you must have, or have had, ammonia in the water. And 'fine' is meaningless, I'm afraid. Unless both ammonia and nitrite are zero, they are not fine.


That's the problem with this heater. I did comment in another thread that you would have problems if the fish ever got ich (aka whitespot) as you can't turn the heater up. You would have thought that a company like Tetra would put an adjustable heater in their tanks since they do make them.
 
Agree. I should have been clearer previously, sorry about that. "Salt" used in a freshwater aquarium as a treatment must be aquarium salt, or pure sea salt. Many sea salts used in the kitchen can contain other ingredients. And you do not want any type of marine salt or rift lake cichlid salt as that contains a lot of other minerals which with soft water fish will add so much additional stress it may well kill them.

I use API Aquarium Salt. It is very inexpensive. But don't get too much (it comes in two sizes of carton) as once opened to the air, it can absorb moisture and this over time weakens its effectiveness. Buy the smaller carton, and once you've used what you need, place the carton in a plastic bag that can be tightly sealed. Store in a dry place at room temp.
 
What about ammonia? If you've had a nitrite spike you must have, or have had, ammonia in the water. And 'fine' is meaningless, I'm afraid. Unless both ammonia and nitrite are zero, they are not fine.

Ammonia went up slightly to the second colour on the test strip but then went back to 0

Thanks for the info guys appreciated!
 
Ok after treating the tank with salt, one of my fish seems to be dead, it’s lying at the bottom of the tank on its side?

The ich seems to have reduced massively, there’s only one fish with one or two spots on it, I used less salt than that stated.

Should I leave the fish I think is dead in the tank in the hope it could recover, do I need to do a water change, could my other fish be at risk?
 
Ok after treating the tank with salt, one of my fish seems to be dead, it’s lying at the bottom of the tank on its side?

The ich seems to have reduced massively, there’s only one fish with one or two spots on it, I used less salt than that stated.

Should I leave the fish I think is dead in the tank in the hope it could recover, do I need to do a water change, could my other fish be at risk?

Don't let the absence of spots fool you; people sometimes end treatment too soon, and the life cycle of ich extends over several days, and they can only be killed during the 24 hours when they are free swimming, looking for a host fish. And some can manage to break through. When heat can bee increased it can shorten the period, but here 2 full weeks is recommended.

You noticed lots of spots on fish you said, which means this was quite advanced when you saw it. I can spot ich before there are spots; the ich attacks the gills and flashing occurs, and I use the severity/frequency of flashing to judge. Once you see spots, some fish are probably in bad shape. I don't want to say remove the fish or not, but I doubt it will recover. But charging around the tank with a net will severely stress the other fish and that should be avoided.

If you did the major water change before adding the salt, you should be OK. How are the fish respirating? If they are under severe stress, you could change some water to reduce the salt. It is next to impossible for me to advise when I am not there to see the fish.
 
Don't let the absence of spots fool you; people sometimes end treatment too soon, and the life cycle of ich extends over several days, and they can only be killed during the 24 hours when they are free swimming, looking for a host fish. And some can manage to break through. When heat can bee increased it can shorten the period, but here 2 full weeks is recommended.

You noticed lots of spots on fish you said, which means this was quite advanced when you saw it. I can spot ich before there are spots; the ich attacks the gills and flashing occurs, and I use the severity/frequency of flashing to judge. Once you see spots, some fish are probably in bad shape. I don't want to say remove the fish or not, but I doubt it will recover. But charging around the tank with a net will severely stress the other fish and that should be avoided.

If you did the major water change before adding the salt, you should be OK. How are the fish respirating? If they are under severe stress, you could change some water to reduce the salt. It is next to impossible for me to advise when I am not there to see the fish.
They seen to be respirating normally, I did do a major water change, I just hope I haven't killed them with the salt.
 
They seen to be respirating normally, I did do a major water change, I just hope I haven't killed them with the salt.

If you followed my instructions, the salt itself will not kill them. The ich may have been advanced enough to do so, or some other issue. Remember, all sorts of things cause stress to a fish in a tank, plus there are genetics and possible internal issues/injuries we cannot hope to see. When we have an obvious contagious disease in a fish tank, we must treat it or lose all the fish. Losing a fish or two because of the treatment when that fish was already in trouble happens, but you cannot avoid treatment or all of them will bee dead. This is why I only treat obvious contagions, rarely if ever an individual fish, because I do not have the experience to possibly know what an individual fish may be dealing with, and risking all the others is senseless. But a contagious disease is very different.
 

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