Ich -- bollox

[Gypsum]

Complacency causes a lot of climbing accidents. You've traversed potentially avalanche-prone slopes hundreds of times and nothing has happened, and you stop paying as much attention to slope angles and snowpack layers. Then one day, the slope falls off on you.

I haven't been quarantining new fish because it seemed like a pain and a lot of faff and got away with it. Now I've f&(&*('ed it. I got an L471 about ten days ago, a small species of Hypancistrus plecos, and added it to my 125L tank, which it shares with two other Hypancistrus, an L260 and an L262, some corys, otos, and a couple killifish.

This Wednesday, one of the killis keeled over dead for no apparent reason. Okay, these things happen, and killis aren't very long lived. Tested water, which seemed fine, and did a water change. On Thursday, the L260 and L262 were being really active, swimming up and down during the day. That was unusual. They generally hide all day. But I got a couple photos. Then Friday, I noticed ich on the tail of the one of the killifish and on the L471. I swore a lot. Then I raised the temperature of the tank to 30C. That evening, I noticed all three plecos near the surface of the tank. They are rheophilic fish and I wondered if the temperature change deprived the water of too much oxygen. I did a small water change and bought another powerhead, but as it was about 9pm, the soonest I could get one was the next day. By 2am, the L260 was dead. The next morning, I found the L262 dead. Neither had the telltale symptoms of ich. But I could see ich on the killis, the L471, and one of the otos.

The L471 lived another two days, but I found it DOA this afternoon. One of the pygmy corys has also died. Keeping the temp at 30 and hoping the rest survive. I don't know what else I can do. I'm worried malachite green would kill off my remaining corys and otos.

This sucks. Should the hyperactivity of those plecos -- before anyone showed up with obvious symptoms -- have been a warning sign?

 

[Byron]

While ich could (and usually would) result from other stress [= the actual issue here, introduced with the new pleco], from your description I would seriously doubt ich is the culprit. When fish begin dying this rapidly, with no external signs, it is likely an internal protozoan. And ich would not kill fish at this early a stage regardless, so far as I understand. Twice (in the days before I ever quarantined new fish in more than 20 years) I introduced some unknown protozoan and lost half my tank both times; lesson learned.

The temp raised to 86F/30C is best for ich. Do not use any medications, esp malachite green, as this (and most of them) are more harm than benefit to fish. And they are unlikely to deal with ich or anything else. And MG is carcenogenic.

If you want to assume it is protozoan, the safest treatment is to use metronidazole mixed in with the food; taken internally is faster and more effective than added to the tank water. Seachem make a product called Metroplex which is this antibiotic. You are in the UK and I believe may have trouble with such antibiotics, so someone there will have to get you past that hurdle. But metronidazole added to the food and fed for 10 days will deal with most internal protozoan. It takes a few days for it to become active, as with most antibiotics, and one might lose several fish. But it can be fed to new fish with no harm as a precaution; this was mentioned to me by a marine biologist/microbiologist.

 

[utahfish]

Sorry for your loss that really sucks. I agree with Byron that Ich most likely wasnt the culprit as Ich in my experience doesnt lead to death that quickly. Hope you get it figured sorry again

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

I'm sorry that I'm no help, but I am sorry for the losses you experienced, that's a devastating blow. I hope you can get the right help/meds and save the others, and that you'll keep us updated.

 

[Essjay]

Unfortunately I do not know of any way to get metronidazole in the UK without prescription. Do you have a vet, or even an on-line vet, who would be willing to write a prescription for fish?

 

[Gypsum]

Could ich be comorbid with the alleged protozoan? I can see the ich on the several fish.

I don't know if my equine vet would prescribe me antibiotics 'off label,' as it were. US Amazon indicates that they will send the Seachem stuff here, but it wouldn't show up until the end of August.

What you guys in the UK do?

 

[Byron]

Could ich be comorbid with the alleged protozoan? I can see the ich on the several fish.

I don't know if my equine vet would prescribe me antibiotics 'off label,' as it were. US Amazon indicates that they will send the Seachem stuff here, but it wouldn't show up until the end of August.

What you guys in the UK do?

Yes, ich can be comorbid. Ich is a distinct parasite that once in the water will seek a host fish. Fish generally can deal with this, provided they are in good health. Stress weakens the fish, and this is especially weakening to the immune system, and that is when ich can take hold. It is not incorrect to say that stress causes ich; the parasite obviously must be present, but it is the stress that weakens the fish so it cannot fight off the ich. Fish in fish stores are frequently if not always under stress, which is why so many newly acquired fish can carry ich to our tanks. Ich first attacks fish in the gills where we cannot see the spots, but flashing is usually indicative. But given a stress-free environment the fish in most cases are able to deal with ich. I have seen signs of ich on new fish and even with no treatment on my part they have fought it off during their time in QT. Once I see actual spots externally, which I usually first see on fins, I decide on treatment according to the number of spots; two or three on a group of fish I ignore, but with more I would raise the temp to 86F/30C and maintain it for two weeks. Increase surface disturbance. Except for cold water species, most of our tropical fish can easily handle this.

 

[Gypsum]

I've added additional powerhead and the temp is at 30. Guessing that's all I can do now.

Could ich in the gills have killed those plecos? They need highly oxygenated water. Would the parasites have inhibited their breathing, and raising the temperature did them in? Is that why they were bizarrely active a day or two before they died? Despite my best efforts, I didn't install the new powerhead until it was too late.

Strangely, while I was removing one of the plecos, I found a fry of something skittering around on the bottom of the tank. I think it might have been an oto. God knows if it will survive all this.

 

[Byron]

I've added additional powerhead and the temp is at 30. Guessing that's all I can do now.

Could ich in the gills have killed those plecos? They need highly oxygenated water. Would the parasites have inhibited their breathing, and raising the temperature did them in? Is that why they were bizarrely active a day or two before they died? Despite my best efforts, I didn't install the new powerhead until it was too late.

Strangely, while I was removing one of the plecos, I found a fry of something skittering around on the bottom of the tank. I think it might have been an oto. God knows if it will survive all this.

That will deal with the ich. But if the initial problem was something different, which I still think it is/was, that's another issue entirely. And I have no idea aside from my earlier suggestion as to the protozoan.

Ich in the gills causes external signs, such as flashing, increased respiration, and possibly gasping at the surface. All of which are also symptoms of various other issues. I would think one would have to see more of the ich infestation on the fish before it would kill the fish, but I am not a microbiologist.

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

Strangely, while I was removing one of the plecos, I found a fry of something skittering around on the bottom of the tank. I think it might have been an oto. God knows if it will survive all this.

An oto! Have your otos bred before? (my favourite fish, see profile pic) I would love to get mine to breed someday. Once you're past this illness crisis, would I be able to pick your brain about how you keep your otos please?

 

[Gypsum]

It looks feasible to order metronidazole from the US, although it wouldn't get here until the end of the month.

The tank was sitting at 26.5 degrees before I raised it to 30. I was running one powerhead and have two filters, a Fluval U4 and an Aquael Multikani. My Ph was around 6.5 and my water is very soft. I do weekly 75% water changes. The otos haven't bred before, and I know they're not widely bred in captivity. I've only got three, due to attrition when I first got them and then moving them into a cycling tank (oops). Once I get through this mess, I'll try to get a few more and keep the tank at those conditions.

There are also pygmy corys, c. habrosus and c. pygmaeus, in the tank, so the fry could be that. But it looked more oto-like.

 

[Gypsum]

Update: the pandemic seems to be levelling off. Casualties are three plecos, four killifish, one c. habrosus, and one panda cory. The oto that was covered with white spots looks white spot-free, and no further spots are appearing on any other fish.

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

It looks feasible to order metronidazole from the US, although it wouldn't get here until the end of the month.

The tank was sitting at 26.5 degrees before I raised it to 30. I was running one powerhead and have two filters, a Fluval U4 and an Aquael Multikani. My Ph was around 6.5 and my water is very soft. I do weekly 75% water changes. The otos haven't bred before, and I know they're not widely bred in captivity. I've only got three, due to attrition when I first got them and then moving them into a cycling tank (oops). Once I get through this mess, I'll try to get a few more and keep the tank at those conditions.

There are also pygmy corys, c. habrosus and c. pygmaeus, in the tank, so the fry could be that. But it looked more oto-like.

I've just seen this, thank you! Does sound pretty ideal for otos! They're not widely bred in captivity, but it isn't unheard of! So I hope the fry does turn out to be an oto and makes it. I hope you'll update when you find out what it is. If it turns out to be an oto, it deserves its own thread

Update: the pandemic seems to be levelling off. Casualties are three plecos, four killifish, one c. habrosus, and one panda cory. The oto that was covered with white spots looks white spot-free, and no further spots are appearing on any other fish.

I'm sorry you had so many losses but it's good news that the crisis seems to be passing. Crossing fingers for you that you're through the worst and the rest make it.

 

[ClownLurch]

Update: the pandemic seems to be levelling off. Casualties are three plecos, four killifish, one c. habrosus, and one panda cory. The oto that was covered with white spots looks white spot-free, and no further spots are appearing on any other fish.

Well done. Best of luck.

 

[Gypsum]

It's still stable, although the lone male killifish looks quite stressed. I don't think he's happy being the only killi in the tank. Not a lot I can do about that until I'm 100% sure the outbreak is eliminated, and then it would be another two weeks because all new fish will be quarantined going forward.

Looking ahead, I suppose I want a new plan for this tank. Do I want to try Hypancistrus plecos again? But one species and try to breed? Or something totally different, like Baryancistrus (blue panaques) or something else like whiptails or farlowella. I'm running two powerheads in this thing now, so I could have any of those sorts of fish.