Ich Advice

[ChrisRyan]

Hello! So I don't have a quarantine tank, and I added a rainbow fish about 3 weeks ago. After a few days I noticed the ich and over a couple days increased the temperature of the tank (29 gal) to 90 degrees F. I was just lowering the temp today (14 days since temp increase) and noticed a neon that looked suspicious.  I'm wondering if this is still ich? I was very obvious on the rainbow, which I did lose ultimately. Any advise would be appreciated. All other fish and inverts. appear healthy. Nitrogen levels and ph are normal. Thanks!

 

[hudsona85]

Can't see very well from the pic but it could be scales tearing apart. 90F i think was way too hot to have any fish in.

 

[Sophie]

So the fish has swelled up, lost colour and the scales are now protruding? 

 

[the_lock_man]

I think it's whitespot, aka ich, if you click on the photo, it opens up slightly larger, and it doesn't appear to me that the fish's scales are protruding, but it does appear to have white grains on the surface.
 
Simply raising the temperature of the tank simply speeds up the metabolism of the protozoa. It won't cure the problem on its own - or at least not at the sort of temperatures that will keep the fish safe.
 
You need to add salt as well, or use a proprietory medication (my preferred method).

 

[Bubbelzzz]

I do see more ore less scales that are protruding. Besides, as can be seen on the body of the fish there is some slime white stuff. This is also a sign of scales that are protuding. The eyes that are looking to be popping out add up to that. So My best guess would be pine coning which most likely means dropsy. If that's the case it basically means that your fish will die.
 
I don't think it's ich as there should be lots and lots of tiny white dots over the fish. I can't find them here, only the "white slimy stuff".

 

[ChrisRyan]

Thanks. I does not look like the ich my rainbow fish had. I also just learned that ghost shrimp are nasty little devils, so could she have been attacked by them? It's been over 2 weeks and I dropped the temp from 90 down lower to about 80 (slowly, of course). Going to continue to 78. All my fish survived but the initial rainbow, and potentially this girl. I have seperated the neons from the ghost shrimp. She is still alive. I have been floating her in a tupperware container. She still seems bloated and looks like her scales are sloughing a bit.

Bet it is drospy from stress from heat. Well glad I quarentined her/him. Ok, we'll see what happens. Thanks for the help! Just glad I didn't lose more fish (knock on wood). No more fish until I get a proper QT.

 

[the_lock_man]

OK, fair enough.
 
Can you post a photo of the ghost shrimp? They are normally very placid creatures, but occasionally, retailers sell macrobrachium shrimp as ghost shrimp, and they really are vicious. In particular, I'd like a decent view of their front legs. A macrobrachium has elongated front legs with definite pincers, much more obvoius than a true ghost shrimp. If it is a macro, you want to get rid of it super-quick, they grow into absolute monsters.
 
This is a "true" ghost shrimp 
 

 (c) Liveaquaria.com
 
This is a small macrobrachium
 

 (c) www.diszhal.info
 
As you can see, at first glance, they are very similar, but you can see what I mean about the elongated front legs with claws. 
 
And just for reference, this is what a macrobrachium grows into
 

 (c) Auburn University

 

[ChrisRyan]

ooo, man not a ghost shrimp? and of course i bought many from different stores, so I will have to look at each one, and what just kill the nasty ones?

uhg, he seems to def. have the pinchers...

 

[Bubbelzzz]

I would try to rehome them instead of kill them. Maybe will the petshop accept them?
 
From the picture I would also say a Macrobrachium species.

 

[FishLover1996]

That was very helpful, I just discovered that the "ghost shrimp" I bought a couple weeks ago were not in fact "ghost shrimp" I'm glad I caught it in time.

 

[Sophie]

My response now is far too late I imagine but... for clarification, it seems the fish has developed an internal bacterial infection, exacerbated by raising the temperature (bacteria propagates faster in higher temps). The bloating is symptomatic of bacterial infections (popeye/dropsy/oedema, all symptoms). The fluid retention inside the body if extreme (like this) usually starts damaging major organs so even with a treatment it'd be unlikely to recover sadly

In the case of ich I'd never recommend raising the temperature. The protozoa burrows into the enzymes of the fish, once inside they expand to the "white grain of salt" size you see on the fish. The cysts then burst out through the skin of the fish, leaving loads of tiny holes in the fish's body - bacteria can easily get into the open wounds and cause secondary bacterial infections so it's not a process you wanna speed up.
Combine that with lowering the oxygen levels as the temperature rises, the parasite is already making it difficult for the fish to respire by attacking the gills so stress levels will be through the roof, weakening the fish further.
 
Hopefully doesn't sound like a lecture! Just something I find quite fascinating, ich that is :3