IBC Members?

[Rivermud76]

Thank you so much for the links. I will have to go over them for awhile. I may have more questions so be prepaired.

Is anybody familiar with reputable breeders or shows in the northwest US? I plan on buying some well bred fish and don't want to pay the extreme prices for some fish I have found on the net. The way you describe the show and auctions sounds like a hot bet to me.

 

[cation]

There's actually a regional show coming up inin April in BC, just outside of vancouver. I think there's going to be one soon in Portland, too. None in Seattle this year, though. Oh well, I'll live. Anyway, check the IBC websites - they have a list of all the shows there. I think the lists is in the "Events" section.

 

[Rivermud76]

Hmm, the dates fall on my business trip. Thanks for the info though. I suppose I may just have to order from AquaBid though i have reservations about doing that. I would like to educated a little more about the strain I plan to purchase and the breeding traits they have. I know a lot of breeders shop specifically for individuals that will enhance the specific trait and several strains require constant outcrossing to retain specific traits as they are either unknown genetic traits or they wear out over time. This is a mistake i'd like to avoid with my first strain. I've had guppy strains that would not retain coloration even with wild crosses only to find out later that the breeder crossed in a yellow variety once every 4 to 5 generations. Sigh

 

[BettaMomma]

Aah - I understand now.
I'd never be able to breed them because I'd never be able to part with ANY of my fishes.

Very worthy club - I will consider joining!
thx for the info

 

[Texaswoman]

Make sure if your buying from AB that you buy from a reputable seller, but I would recomend unless you know what you are doing, to contact IBC members for stock. Depends on what your looking for, but most have stock in their fishroom at all times even though they don't advertise it. Ask lots of questions about the fish, background, what the fish is eating, age, how they cross their lines and what generation the fish is, what inbreed cross number is the fish if from a strain that was bred brother/sister etc., and genetic info from parents if avaliable. If they are willing to answer your questions, then more than likely it's a good buy and not a shady seller trying to scam a fish.

 

[yeeviabetta]

Texaswoman had well said again. Many good points there. You do have to think what line of betta you want to start with too. Blue or red line.
As for me now, I want to do a little bit of that and a little bit of this. LOL What to do. I got the blue babies now. LOL

 

[Rivermud76]

Well the first strain I'd like to try is probably a difficult strain to maintain based on what little information I have. Yellow. From what I can tell you have to have absence of several genes in order to get true yellow throws. I have heard of the extremely rare Yellow Gold variety and would like to see then. I really haven't gotten into the tail dynamics of the breeds and i am sure that that will help throw another cog into the works for preserving color without doing a lot of father daughter, brother sister breeding. I am sure I will have to maintain two lines going for yellow if it is to work. Shrug. I am open however to change and i may end up fancying a different fish in the near future. yellow just happens to intrigue me though only the Yellow gold variety. Dull yellow isn't my thing. Steel Blue seems easy enough to maintain, and one could then focus on tail and body type more.

Heh, i am opening a can of worms and getting off the original subject of the thread but that's ok. Great information everyone. Maybe I'll just have to make a few friends here and buy my stock from them

 

[SRC]

I thought you got yellow from red actually.

I am under the impression that the yellow color comes from a red fish who isn't "red" red...so it was left a washed out yellow. Which is why you don't normally see a fish that is yellow and red (unless it's ventrals are red). Same with Orange.

But of course I read all that on the internet..so who knows lol.

 

[Rivermud76]

Just from a little bit of the research I have done.. I may have misinterpreted so please correct me.

The Red Loss factor causes Bettas that are red as juveniles to lose that colour as the mature.  This factor is present in Cambodians and in yellows and apricot colours.

It seems you were correct SRC.. Though yellow is denoted other ways such as nr.. but they may have to be related in order to drop a good yellow. I'm not sure how the Yellow Gold would drop based on this genetic listing.

COLOUR INHERITANCE IN BETTAS
There are four layers of color--the yellow is the bottom most, then black, red, and the iridescent layer is upper most.

Colour Genotypes, notation:
[+ denotes wild or "normal" form; upper case denotes dominance over +; lower case denotes a recessive or semi-dominant trait.  Thus, ++ or +w or w+ give normal coloured eyes and ww gives white eye.)
 

w  white eye  recessive white outer ring to the eyes.
c  Cambodian  recessive limits black
b  black or m melano recessive black males; deadly in females.
Si  spread Iridocytes dominant causes spread of iridescence over body and fins
Op  opaque  dominant produces an opaque, white coating on the body and fins; present in all pastel colours.
bl  incomplete dominance metallic blue-green iridescence*
Bl incomplete dominance green iridescence*
nr  non-Red recessive removes red; present in yellow, white and some Cambodians
b  blond  recessive dilutes colours by reducing melanin; 
L  red-Loss dominant all red colour fades as the fish matures, revealing the other colours if present.
mb  marbled pattern  recessive colour blotches
Vf variegated fins dominant streaked fins and butterfly trait 
ER (or R ) extended red  dominant all red, colour varies from cherry red to vermillion, depending on other factors present.

*N.B. the Bl & bl alleles determines steel blue, blue-green, turquoise, corn-flower and royal blue colours.  Blbl or blBl gives royal blue, BlBl gives green and blbl gives steel-blue. 

This chart seems lacking to me..


AH HAH! This is where I got confused.

The IBC standards categorize yellow as a light-bodied, solid color type. To obtain a solid yellow, several changes must exist. The black and iridocyte colors must be minimized (eliminated if possible), the yellow must replace the red and the red/yellow must be extended to cover the entire fish. This requires four different alterations of three different pigment components! Two of these seem regulated by single locus recessive genes, the non-red already mentioned and the recessive cambodian gene which nearly eliminates dark pigment. The other two (the extension of red to cover the entire fish) and the reduction of iridocyte color to minimize green (or blue, if the green has been altered ... by still another gene) do not operate as though controlled by single genes.

Aaaiiieee.. The pre-requisites for yellow seem nearly insane.

 

[Texaswoman]

Yes, SRC is correct about yellow comes from red. You have to have 2 lines, basically red and non red. My mentor and local club president devotes his time to yellows and has normally 2-4 spawns at a time to get some. They are very difficult to get, atleast one without black and with good color and finnage. The yellow/gold variety I think is different genes and don't come from red. They are from the new mettalic gene types, and I've got a few pairs but I haven't managed to get any fry yet to determine the outcomes. From the asian breeders where they originated, they are from the same color parents, and a few came from platinums and coppers. The standard for yellows is describing the ideal yellow, which I think is as non-existent as the black, true standard definitions that is.