I cant get a break nor can my fish 😥

[H20lover99]

Hey guys so as you know I've been having trouble with my black convict cichlids for awhile now. 20 gallon 2 convicts. Only 1 showing ulcers. I treated with a general cure. Did the whole treatment started going away at the end of treatment but never 100% well it has gotten worse. Treated with tetra lifeguard general cure. The 2nd treatment ( api erythromycin) I just finished 2 days ago and did a water change as well. I've been tediously changing the water/gravel vac/testing water. Like 75% water changes. Fish is getting better but isnt 100% and still worse then the 1st end results. Also these fish are about 8 years old. But dont the live alot longer? Tonight I havent done anything with it just epson salt. I have another tetra lifeguard general cure full box should I start that again? Should I wait. Picture below. Dont want to overload with meds but also his insides are literally falling out.


2nd issue is my other fish. A blue electric acara. No doubt its popeye. Picture below. Hes in a 10 gallon. Not great but he was supposed to be in the other tanks didnt work so hes in the hospital tank permanently now. Hes around 2 years. About 1 year ago he started having eye issues, just cloudiness no other symptoms. I assumed he was blind bc is was apparent. Thinking he damaged his eye a long time ago when he was in the convict tank. At least in 1 eye. 1 wk ago I noticed his eyes bulging. No Rocks in tank, constant water changes/testing. Removing/adding different decorations. I also have him on tetra lifeguard general cure right now with little epson salt in the tanks. Comments and concerns please.

Really just need to get rid of these fish they give me way more problems then I get joy from them. But i can't truly not give it my all. Thanks guys

 

[Colin_T]

People are probably going to chuck a sad at me about this but they would get eaten in the wild. If the fish are really old and not responding to treatment, it's either because their immune system is failing due to age or other health issues, or they have a drug resistant bacterial infection. Either way if the medication isn't working, and the fish aren't improving, then I would euthanise.

If you do euthanise, make sure you disinfect the tank/s afterwards before you put anymore fish in them. If they do have a drug resistant bacterial infection, putting new fish into those tanks before they are disinfected will probably cause the same problems to the new fish in the future.

 

[H20lover99]

People are probably going to chuck a sad at me about this but they would get eaten in the wild. If the fish are really old and not responding to treatment, it's either because their immune system is failing due to age or other health issues, or they have a drug resistant bacterial infection. Either way if the medication isn't working, and the fish aren't improving, then I would euthanise.

If you do euthanise, make sure you disinfect the tank/s afterwards before you put anymore fish in them. If they do have a drug resistant bacterial infection, putting new fish into those tanks before they are disinfected will probably cause the same problems to the new fish in the future.

No um you seem actually normal lol. Do you think 9 years is old for a convict? I mean It does seem old to me but idk. Also do you think it would get like more better if I kept treating them? To a point where it's all better? Would it hurt to try? Like I said they get a little better each time I treat them. Granted I have been throwing meds at them for a bit. I have never really thought I was a fish person like could actually have love for a fish but the worse it gets the more I feel so terrible Inside. I dont even have names for them but I am attached. I do see how the cycle I'm in now will only keep cycling tho and getting worse if that's the case. Thanks colin

 

[Colin_T]

Nine years old is a pretty good age for a cichlid, especially a smaller variety like convict. Most get killed the first time they try to breed but a number make it to 4 or 5 years old, some live longer and nine years is pretty good.

You can keep treating if you like but it gets to a point if the medication isn't working and the problem is getting worse, then the fish is going to die and there's not much you can do about it. Ideally if you want to continue treatment and hope it cures the fish, then you find a fish vet and have them take a swab of the wound and culture it in a lab (or at least look at it under a microscope) to find out exactly what is causing the problem. Then treat it for that particular infection.

If you can't afford a fish vet, most Department of Agriculture have a Fish Health section and many do free fish health testing for the general public (some charge but most are free). You could contact the local Department of Agriculture and see if they have a Fish Health section and if they test sick fish for home aquarists.

High schools and Universities usually have a biology lab and some will take swabs of infected fish and culture them to see what is growing but you would have to call around and see if anyone does it in your area.

If you can't find anyone to take a swab and look at it under a microscope and you still want to try treating it, put the fish in a bare glass tank with a cave and airstone bubbling away. Add the medication and treat for a week. Clean the tank each day by wiping the inside and changing all the water, then add new medication. Antibiotics work best in bare containers so the medication can work on the fish and isn't wasted on other things that might be living in the substrate or on ornaments and plants.

If there's no improvement after a week of medication then you need a different medication. The problem with using multiple medications is you are more likely to encourage drug resistant bacteria and if that happens you will never be able to treat the fish.

If you get the right medication you should see a major improvement within a few days.

If the infection is caused by Mycobacteria (Fish Tuberculosis) there is no cure and you can spend a year treating it with everything and still fail.

If you have been treating it for a month or more continuously and it hasn't improved a lot, I would think about euthanising the fish. You don't have to do it straight away and the fish might be fine for a few more months but if the wound gets worse and you can see bone or muscle tissue, then it's time to euthanise. If the fish has trouble swimming or stops eating, euthanise it straight away.

 

[H20lover99]

Nine years old is a pretty good age for a cichlid, especially a smaller variety like convict. Most get killed the first time they try to breed but a number make it to 4 or 5 years old, some live longer and nine years is pretty good.

You can keep treating if you like but it gets to a point if the medication isn't working and the problem is getting worse, then the fish is going to die and there's not much you can do about it. Ideally if you want to continue treatment and hope it cures the fish, then you find a fish vet and have them take a swab of the wound and culture it in a lab (or at least look at it under a microscope) to find out exactly what is causing the problem. Then treat it for that particular infection.

If you can't afford a fish vet, most Department of Agriculture have a Fish Health section and many do free fish health testing for the general public (some charge but most are free). You could contact the local Department of Agriculture and see if they have a Fish Health section and if they test sick fish for home aquarists.

High schools and Universities usually have a biology lab and some will take swabs of infected fish and culture them to see what is growing but you would have to call around and see if anyone does it in your area.

If you can't find anyone to take a swab and look at it under a microscope and you still want to try treating it, put the fish in a bare glass tank with a cave and airstone bubbling away. Add the medication and treat for a week. Clean the tank each day by wiping the inside and changing all the water, then add new medication. Antibiotics work best in bare containers so the medication can work on the fish and isn't wasted on other things that might be living in the substrate or on ornaments and plants.

If there's no improvement after a week of medication then you need a different medication. The problem with using multiple medications is you are more likely to encourage drug resistant bacteria and if that happens you will never be able to treat the fish.

If you get the right medication you should see a major improvement within a few days.

If the infection is caused by Mycobacteria (Fish Tuberculosis) there is no cure and you can spend a year treating it with everything and still fail.

If you have been treating it for a month or more continuously and it hasn't improved a lot, I would think about euthanising the fish. You don't have to do it straight away and the fish might be fine for a few more months but if the wound gets worse and you can see bone or muscle tissue, then it's time to euthanise. If the fish has trouble swimming or stops eating, euthanise it straight away.

Ahh jesshhk bro. I appreciate the info and will be repeatedly coming back to this post for information. With your info and my info lol I believe I will continue to do one more full treatment of the same antibiotics I used the latter time. Like I said it worked but wasn't completely gone by the end of the treatment. I figure it's like when I took antibiotics that I was sorta resistant to. It worked sorta 1st but I went back to the dr again and he just prescribed it for a longer time. So I will try it that way. I do work at a vets office. We do have a microscope there. If this second round (of many ) dosent work then I'll talk to my boss and see if she can look at it and be able to identify it. Much love bro

 

[TwoTankAmin]

There is one other consideration. There are a lot of antibiotics out there. Some work mostly against gram positive bacteria while others work against gram negative. But they also usually have a bit of overlap. Antibiotics can be categorized by their spectrum of activity, which is whether they affect gram-positive, gram-negative, or both types of bacteria:

Antibiotics can be categorized by their spectrum of activity, which is whether they affect gram-positive, gram-negative, or both types of bacteria:

Narrow-spectrum antibiotics: Target a specific group of bacteria, such as gram-positive bacteria. Penicillin G is an example of a narrow-spectrum antibiotic.

Broad-spectrum antibiotics: Affect both gram-positive and some gram-negative

Extended-spectrum antibiotics: Affect additional types of bacteria, usually gram-negative bacteria.

So the problem might be that you have not hit on the right antibiotic to treat the problem. Normally, testing of an "infection" determines exactly what it is which then determines the best type of anitbiotic should be used. Unfprtunately, we hobbyists have almot no way to diagnose the nature of any given bacteria.

 

[H20lover99]

There is one other consideration. There are a lot of antibiotics out there. Some work mostly against gram positive bacteria while others work against gram negative. But they also usually have a bit of overlap. Antibiotics can be categorized by their spectrum of activity, which is whether they affect gram-positive, gram-negative, or both types of bacteria:



So the problem might be that you have not hit on the right antibiotic to treat the problem. Normally, testing of an "infection" determines exactly what it is which then determines the best type of anitbiotic should be used. Unfprtunately, we hobbyists have almot no way to diagnose the nature of any given bacteria.

a reply to 2tank and colin. I have now made a chart containing what I do for the tank each day. My blue acara eyes look worse. On day 6 with erythromycin. Has not gotten better even with water changes and extended meds. Convict in the other tank has slightly improved with fin and body cure but again this is day 4. I talked to my boss (a vet who btw I knew she wouldn't know anything lol) I showed her the pictures and brought in all my boxes of meds she said doxycycline is what she would do for all of them I don't believe her but she has proven me wrong alot. So I understand the risk but even so do you guys think I should start another medication? It's just laughable ( in pain ) at this point. I can't believe how much money I've spent on medication.

 

[Colin_T]

The choice is yours if you try another medication. If you have access to Doxycycline and are willing to buy it, then give it a go, but if they don't improve within a week, then stop medicating and prepare to euthanise.

Doxycycline will wipe out beneficial filter bacteria and should be used in a bare tank. Clean the tank and change all the water before adding another medication and before you re-dose the Doxycycline (if you use it).

We used Doxycycline on guppies at the shop and sometimes they came good but sometimes they didn't. The main issue with it is the Asian fish farms use it a lot and many types of harmful bacteria are resistant to it.

We all spend money trying to save our fish. I spent thousands trying to find a cure for Fish TB and gave up in the end. Most people are a little more sensible than me and have a limit to how much they will spend. You have a chance to treat them and if you can get the medication you could try, but that would be my last medication and if it fails then it's over.

It's a bit disappointing your boss didn't get you to take the fish in so she could get a swab and stick it under a microscope. It would take about 10 minutes and could give you a more positive answer.

 

[H20lover99]

Also 1 more question for yah colin, I do dump this tank water down my bathtub. And I constantly take bathies after I dump the water I spray the tub down with antibacterial soap and wash all towels used for the job. You do think that's good enough right?

 

[H20lover99]

The choice is yours if you try another medication. If you have access to Doxycycline and are willing to buy it, then give it a go, but if they don't improve within a week, then stop medicating and prepare to euthanise.

Doxycycline will wipe out beneficial filter bacteria and should be used in a bare tank. Clean the tank and change all the water before adding another medication and before you re-dose the Doxycycline (if you use it).

We used Doxycycline on guppies at the shop and sometimes they came good but sometimes they didn't. The main issue with it is the Asian fish farms use it a lot and many types of harmful bacteria are resistant to it.

We all spend money trying to save our fish. I spent thousands trying to find a cure for Fish TB and gave up in the end. Most people are a little more sensible than me and have a limit to how much they will spend. You have a chance to treat them and if you can get the medication you could try, but that would be my last medication and if it fails then it's over.

It's a bit disappointing your boss didn't get you to take the fish in so she could get a swab and stick it under a microscope. It would take about 10 minutes and could give you a more positive answer.

You have no idea how faded and careless my boss a vet is with animals it's a shame. Not even gonna say wat she did to thoses poor kittens but w.e not the topic

 

[Colin_T]

Also 1 more question for yah colin, I do dump this tank water down my bathtub. And I constantly take bathies after I dump the water I spray the tub down with antibacterial soap and wash all towels used for the job. You do think that's good enough right?

Can you pour the used tank water outside on the lawn?

I would bleach the bath after pouring aquarium water in it. Pour some liquid bleach over the bath, wait 15-30 minutes and rinse off. Make sure there's plenty of air flow so you don't damage your lungs or sinuses from the bleach.

If you don't want to use bleach then rinsing with hot tap water, allowing to mostly dry and then washing with antibacterial soap should do it. Leave the soap in contact with the bath for a few minutes before washing it out with more hot tap water.

I would wash towels in hot water (60C / 140F). That will kill anything on them.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

API Fin & Body Cure is Doxycycline Hyclate. I have this med. I have been trying to cure a case of white eyes in a single cory in a group of 9 in their own tank. I managed to knock it back some but it did not cure the problem. The cory is active and eating. The white is worse in one eye than the other, so I think it still sees some.

I gave it two double treatments a few months back but now the problem seems to be worsening again. I do not think this is something contagious which bacteria often is. None of the 8 other corys have shown any signs of clouding or white eyes. I have had the fish for about 16 months or so.

 

[H20lover99]

No I'd have to go a long journey to dump it outside. Thanks guys. I'll give yah a update then. Much love