Humans causing evolution

[GaryE]

Well, that escalated quickly. And it also killed what might have been an interesting discussion about the effects of poaching on elephant ivory.

That's a remarkable window into evolution as a process. I think if we ignore the ideology and look at the science, we can have a good talk here. But Connor will not convince me - been there, done that, gave away the t-shirt. And I won't convince him, nor do I really want to. I just want to be able to discuss what is really going on out there in this wonderful world.

There's no question of missing links - that idea was discarded ages ago. No jump from man to beast or vice versa. No straight lines, no progress.

Connor, please, do not ever get killies. If you do any kind of study of them, it'll make you feel unhappy.

 

[connorlindeman]

Connor, please, do not ever get killies. If you do any kind of study of them, it'll make you feel unhappy.

Ive got clown killis

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

Well, that escalated quickly. And it also killed what might have been an interesting discussion about the effects of poaching on elephant ivory.

That's a remarkable window into evolution as a process. I think if we ignore the ideology and look at the science, we can have a good talk here. But Connor will not convince me - been there, done that, gave away the t-shirt. And I won't convince him, nor do I really want to. I just want to be able to discuss what is really going on out there in this wonderful world.

There's no question of missing links - that idea was discarded ages ago. No jump from man to beast or vice versa. No straight lines, no progress.

Connor, please, do not ever get killies. If you do any kind of study of them, it'll make you feel unhappy.

Apologies for my part in it! I'm ducking out of this thread now, but I hope you guys do continue a wonderful discussion about the majesty of our natural world and the processes involved!

 

[connorlindeman]

I just want to be able to discuss what is really going on out there in this wonderful world.

All I said was that what the OP posted was a perfect example of Micro Evolution. Is there anything wrong with that?

 

[connorlindeman]

That's a remarkable window into evolution as a process. I think if we ignore the ideology and look at the science, we can have a good talk here. But Connor will not convince me - been there, done that, gave away the t-shirt. And I won't convince him, nor do I really want to. I just want to be able to discuss what is really going on out there in this wonderful world.

I thought that we were discussing science. I did not bring up religion at all. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Guyb93]

I missed all the fun here , problem with any discussion about evolution it has contradictory ideas to what religion is , a lot of science can be dragged into religion or politics and will always spark a debate ( not my intention) I just thought it was mad that elephant females are losing tusks because of humans , the idea of faith and hope has actually scientific merit, I believe a study was done with rats , they put a rat in a bucket of water and it will drown in 15-20 mins , they repeat but before the rat drowns they take it out let it rest for 5 mins then put it back in , logically the rat should drown in less than 15 mins but the rat swam for 30 hours or something crazy because it believed that eventually it would be saved .. faith is a cruel thing lol

 

[jesusjones]

I just thought it was mad that elephant females are losing tusks because of humans

It is mad, maddening. The phrasing of the quote also makes me wonder what the proposed solution is exactly?? The tuskless elephants don't produce male offspring, therefor, eventually, no more elephants (if the trend of tusked elephants "disappearing" continues).

Fingers crossed for the elephants

 

[Guyb93]

It is mad, maddening. The phrasing of the quote also makes me wonder what the proposed solution is exactly?? The tuskless elephants don't produce male offspring, therefor, eventually, no more elephants (if the trend of tusked elephants "disappearing" continues).

Fingers crossed for the elephants

Nothing will survive humans , the planet isnt big enough for our cancer like reproduction and destruction
We are a disease to the earth

 

[Guyb93]

Wolfington: The power of hope

www.eaglevalleybh.org

Link to the rat experiment if anyone is interested

 

[Back in the fold]

Humans have influenced evolution. Because of human stupidity I have evolved thicker skin and diminished hearing.

 

[Wills]

Nice to see this thread has evolved back into a calmer state and that people have decided to disagree and go their own ways. Remember people, arguing on the internet is like screaming into the wind.

Lets keep this thread calm from here on otherwise we will need to lock it.

Wills

 

[Guyb93]

Nice to see this thread has evolved back into a calmer state and that people have decided to disagree and go their own ways. Remember people, arguing on the internet is like screaming into the wind.

Lets keep this thread calm from here on otherwise we will need to lock it.

Wills

I love the analogy, arguing on the internet is like screaming into the wind , I’m going to save that one for my next domestic argument

 

[Oblio]

Nice to see this thread has evolved back into a calmer state and that people have decided to disagree and go their own ways. Remember people, arguing on the internet is like screaming into the wind.

Lets keep this thread calm from here on otherwise we will need to lock it.

Wills

I see what you did there

 

[emeraldking]

@emeraldking I'm sure I remember you giving an explanation before about the reason certain livebearers that are closely related, have become distinct enough that they can no longer interbreed. Like, the gonopodiums no longer fit with the other species. I wonder whether that info might be useful here?

Well, those are two different stories you're mentioning. Evolution has to do with adaption whatever the species. In general, adaption by environmental and/or circumstantial factors. But the way it happens can differ per living species (animals, plants or micro organisms). Mutations however can be a natural or a man made phenomenon.

About the shape of the gonopodium in ovoviviparous livebearers, I've told that they differ per individual species. But close related species will have compatible sexual organs. They're not the same but compatible enough. Far distanced ovoviviparous livebearers, the males have different shaped and different sized gonopodia and the female sexual organs of those species are shaped in a way that only a male of her own kind or of a close related kind can mate with her. Species with a longer (and mostly smooth) gonopodium don't have a courtship in comparison to species with a shorter (and not smooth) gonopodium). Males with a long gonopodium can direct their gonopodium directly to the female's sexual organ. A male with a shorter gonopodium uses a courtship to get as close as possible to the female's sexual organ. But at all times, it's the female that will decide wether she allows a male to mate with her or not. And actually, with ovoviviparous livebearers, the male's sexual organ does not insert the female's sexual organ. It only tips the opening and leave his sperm right there. The female herself sucks it in and stores the sperm in packages in the folds of her fallopian tube. Because males with a shorter gonopdium have more difficulty to enter the female's sexual organs, most of these males will have 1 or more hooks at the end of the gonopodium for a better grip.
I deliberately use the word "ovoviviparous' for males of real livebearers (viviparous) don't have a gonopodium but an andropodium.

Once something has evolved, the DNA can differ. Same goes when we're talking about a mutation. It will change something in the DNA. But wether it will be dominant (whatever phase) or recessive (whatever phase) is a different story. When it concerns evolution, it's most likely dominant to ensure that the next generation will have the same DNA. For instance, more body hair to protect against the cold. Dark skin to have a better protection of the sun. Why is a specific animal an omnivore, carnivore or herbivore? Mostly because of what the environment has to offer on food. And that's why the shape of those teeth of such an animal or even human have evolved to a practical shape to eat food that's available. There are so many more examples to call... Why are teeth sharper or more bend of a specific animal in comparison to another animal? Well, it could be because prey can have tougher skin that they have to go through... or a better grip when they caught the prey... or whatever reason...

 

[emeraldking]

Nothing will survive humans , the planet isnt big enough for our cancer like reproduction and destruction
We are a disease to the earth

Well, the human race wants to deny this but you're completely right... Thusfar, we've done this planet very wrong...