How To Transition A Common From Tank To Pond?

[dreamermama]

Hi! I have at least two goldfish that I need to find a new home for. They are 3 and 4-inch commons and are much too large now for their small tank (kids brought them home from a pool party last summer). We cannot set up a bigger tank for them.

I know a couple that will take them off our hands and put them in their small hobby pond. They admit that since they inherited this pond with the house, they do not put much effort into it, and they will not worry whether our fish do okay or not. They do run a filter throughout the warm months, put in certain additives I think for the water, and they do attend to the plants as necessary, but they DO NOT feed the fish at all. They just have goldfish as far as I know. Their fish make do eating what is available from the plants, etc. There are two levels to the pond and both of the deepest sections are 20-24 inches. Their fish survived the winter and have had babies.

My questions are:

1. Since our fish have been pets, they are used to being fed 2 x a day. Will they have a hard time adjusting to finding food on their own?

2. There will be a big water quality and temp difference. Our tank is unheated but as it is only 5 gal. it rises to room temp which in the kitchen is a warm 74 degrees Fehrenheit. The pond water must be considerably colder, as the outdoor temps get down to freezing at night here still, and it is often only around 40 F during the day (although today is 60F). Is there anything I should do to prepare them for the difference in water? I read elsewhere online about getting a bucket and filling it partway with their tank water, then adding a small amount of pond water. Then keep adding pond water over several hours. But the article didn't state if that was it and after those hours to put the fish in the pond or do anything else. We do care about them and want to give them the best chance.

Thanks!

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

The first things you need to find out about this couple's pond are;

a. How long, wide and deep is the pond?
b. How many goldfish do they have in it already?

I assume they don't filter this pond yes?


From what i've heard, Ohio's winters can get rather cold, down to freezing temperatures in the wintertime, and taking this into consideration the couple's pond isn't really deep enough for goldfish- their fish may be ok for now, but as they continue to grow the fish could grow too large to stay further away enough from the ice on the pond during winter, and if they got a particularly cold winter then they could risk loosing the fish (as although goldfish are coldwater fish, they can only handle temps so low)- a neighbor of mine once dug a goldfish pond too shallow (only 2ft deep) and a few years after they had their goldfish in their pond, they lost every single one during a particularly cold winter.

Apart from the pure cold, shallow ponds can cause fish other stresses- because shallow ponds warm up a lot quicker than deeper ones, if the fish are hibernating during winter in the pond but then the weather gets a freaky warm snap for a short period of time, this can cause the pond to warm up enough to fool the goldfish out of their hibernation even though its still wintertime. This can cause several main problems- if the goldfish do accidentally come out of their hibernative state during the wintertime, then they could use up valuable body fat reserves swimming around lots only to find there's no food, and then they have to go back into hibernation except on less body fats, which makes the whole successful hibernating process a lot more difficult. The other problem is that say the pond warms up during the fishes hibernation but the fish don't come out of hibernation- the warm temps can make things like fish parasites active while the fish are still in their vulnerable slumber state, and the parasites will attack the fish in this state when it can't really defend itself adequately against them etc.

Its also not ideal that these people do not bother to feed the fish- this will have a negative impact on the fish during the long term, and from years of cold temperatures during the winters and hot temperatures during the summers and lack of decent food, their fish are likely to suffer some degree of stunted growth and are at more risk of suffering from health problems than goldfish kept in a good pond and are looked after properly etc. Goldfish are omnivore's- they cannot survive off things like plants alone in a pond, its likely that the only thing thats been keeping the goldfish in the pond going is any aquatic insect larvae and things they've been finding, but this is not that ideal as such critters are likely to only be present in decent numbers during the summer months.

Its a tough situation. Your tank is obviously way too small for your goldfish, but then again this couple's pond does not sound like an ideal new home either, their current goldfish are already likely to be having tough time in it.

Either way though you shouldn't move your goldfish into their pond if only purely for the vast temperature change- to put goldfish in a pond thats so much colder than their current tank would be a massive shock to them (it could even cause them to die from the stress of it), you should only consider moving your fish into an outdoor pond when the pond temps are 18-19degree's C warm or more .

May i ask, can you not set up a larger tank for these fish for the time being due to money issues or space issues or both? There are some much cheaper alternatives to buying brand new aquariums for fish . Because of the cold temperatures, even if the couple's pond was ideal for the goldfish it still wouldn't be good to move the goldfish outdoors for the above said reasons, so you will probably be stuck with these goldfish for quite a few more months at the least while you wait for the warmer months to come along.

 

[dreamermama]

Thank you for the thoughtful reply. I know they think their pond is 2ft in some places, but not deeper. I don't know the other dimensions. They DO run a filter. I don't know how many fish they have, but I know at least one is as big as my 4-inch goldfish.

We have no space or extra money for more aquariums right now. I'm expecting a baby in the summer too so my time is very limited with other children to care for as well. But we like our fish!

We have a 10-gal that has 2 comets in it, plus 3 corydoras and 2 dwarf plecos (maybe the 2nd dwarf could go back into the 5 gal as he was doing fine there, they haven't grown from their 3 cm size....? But I want to eventually put 3 guppies in there and I don't know how well they'd mix with a dwarf plec). I know the 10 gallon is already overstocked, but those goldfish are smaller and not growing as fast. I am thinking maybe I could put the smaller goldfish (3-in) from the 5 gallon into the 10 gallon until the weather warms up, at least, and I figure out a solution. I am daily monitoring the water in both tanks and doing water changes as I'd made some mistakes as a newbie and they are both basically cycling again. The ammonia in the 5 gallon is very high, but it is good in the 10 gallon, so far..., the nitrites (1-2 ppm--I know they need lowered) and nitrates (40-80 ppm, unsure becuz I'm still learning to read the API tests) are almost equal in both as of last night. The filter on the 10 gallon is 100G/hour--it is meant for a 20 gallon tank so not terribly weak, although I know goldfish are very dirty.

It's not ideal but do you think that would be a decent temporary solution? Any problem with having leaving the one goldfish alone in the 5-gal (or with a dwarf pleco at most)?

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

We have a 10-gal that has 2 comets in it, plus 3 corydoras and 2 dwarf plecos (maybe the 2nd dwarf could go back into the 5 gal as he was doing fine there, they haven't grown from their 3 cm size....? But I want to eventually put 3 guppies in there and I don't know how well they'd mix with a dwarf plec). I know the 10 gallon is already overstocked, but those goldfish are smaller and not growing as fast. I am thinking maybe I could put the smaller goldfish (3-in) from the 5 gallon into the 10 gallon until the weather warms up, at least, and I figure out a solution. I am daily monitoring the water in both tanks and doing water changes as I'd made some mistakes as a newbie and they are both basically cycling again. The ammonia in the 5 gallon is very high, but it is good in the 10 gallon, so far..., the nitrites (1-2 ppm--I know they need lowered) and nitrates (40-80 ppm, unsure becuz I'm still learning to read the API tests) are almost equal in both as of last night. The filter on the 10 gallon is 100G/hour--it is meant for a 20 gallon tank so not terribly weak, although I know goldfish are very dirty.

It's not ideal but do you think that would be a decent temporary solution? Any problem with having leaving the one goldfish alone in the 5-gal (or with a dwarf pleco at most)?

If the two goldfish in the 10gal are smaller than the 3 goldfish in the 5gal, then swapping them around so the larger goldfish are in the 10gal would be better . If the 5gal is suffering from water quality problems then if you buy an extra filter for the tank this could help the tank cope with its bioload .
Also are you positive that the dwarf plecos are actually plecos ("dwarf pleco" is a name lfs's use to describe a variety of fish, both plec's and non-plec type fish)? You should check out oto's;

http/www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/speci...?species_id=105

And hillstream loaches;

http/www.loaches.com/species-index/beauf...a-kweichowensis

Do your pleco's look like either of these fish ?

 

[dreamermama]

Hi, Tokis-Phoenix,

I have wondered if they are truly dwarf plecos since reading recently that those are fairly rare. I will try to post pics but I haven't quite figured that out yet (they seem to post and then get "deleted" by photobucket even though I haven't changed anything/broken any links).

I'm sorry neither picture is all that good, the fish are bashful, but I don't think they look like either of the photos you posted above.

As for the goldfish, each tank currently has two in it. If I move the small one out of the 5-gallon, that puts three in the 10g, and leaves 1 in the 5g. What do you think about that?



Dwarf plecos, so I've been told (my LFS specializes in fish):

#1 (tail is facing camera)

Next two are of #2, just different angles of him/her (pleco is in bell):

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

As for the goldfish, each tank currently has two in it. If I move the small one out of the 5-gallon, that puts three in the 10g, and leaves 1 in the 5g. What do you think about that?

Sounds better .

Hi, Tokis-Phoenix,

I have wondered if they are truly dwarf plecos since reading recently that those are fairly rare. I will try to post pics but I haven't quite figured that out yet (they seem to post and then get "deleted" by photobucket even though I haven't changed anything/broken any links).

I'm sorry neither picture is all that good, the fish are bashful, but I don't think they look like either of the photos you posted above.

Dwarf plecos, so I've been told (my LFS specializes in fish):

#1 (tail is facing camera)

Next two are of #2, just different angles of him/her (pleco is in bell):

The first pleco looks like it could be a Flash Pleco (see link below for pics of them);

http/www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/speci...?species_id=126

And the second one looks like a Clown Pleco;

http/www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/speci...?species_id=734


Do these two pleco's match your ones well do you think ?

If so, both pleco's are wood eating types, they do best with a variety of bogwood/driftwood/mopani wood to rasp on- bogwood/driftwood/mopani wood will stain the water of the tank a sort of tea color brown as these types of wood will leach tannins into the tanks water (which are beneficial for many types of fish, particularly many types of pleco's and other catfish), however the wood will eventually stop leaching tannins into the water after a while and you'll be able to get rid of the tea color water with regular water changes. Pre-soaking the wood in hot water for a 2-3weeks before you put it into the tank will help remove a lot of the tannins which stain the water .

 

[dreamermama]

(Couldn't reply sooner due to the server being inaccessible)

Yes, I think my plecos could be those fish. I should ask more questions about them next time I'm at the LFS, and be sure it's the manager I'm speaking to. Thanks for your help!

This thread and others have me truly considering building a backyard pond someday...when the money is there and I don't have to worry too much about my young children falling in. I would really enjoy having a proper home for my goldfish and I'd love the gardening aspect, too.

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

(Couldn't reply sooner due to the server being inaccessible)

Yes, I think my plecos could be those fish. I should ask more questions about them next time I'm at the LFS, and be sure it's the manager I'm speaking to. Thanks for your help!

No problem .

I have to say though that the best thing to do when buying fish is to really thoroughly research (using research materials like up-to-date good fishkeeping books or good sites or forums on the internet etc) what fish you want before you buy it, as unfortunately most pet shop staff don't really know much on the fish they sell (even asking them things like how to cycle a tank will often get you a blank stare or a load of incorrect info/advice) and managers of pet shops aren't necessarily any better. There are thousands of types of fish available in the hobby and there's so much to learn about them all, its no surprise that a lot of (often minimum wage paid) pet shop staff don't know that much about them (their training doesn't generally cover things like this), and the managers will just want to make a sale, and even well-meaning sincere pet shop workers may not always be equipped with the most accurate fishkeeping info, so its best to rely only upon yourself when buying fish and research your desired fish in advance .

This thread and others have me truly considering building a backyard pond someday...when the money is there and I don't have to worry too much about my young children falling in. I would really enjoy having a proper home for my goldfish and I'd love the gardening aspect, too.

I totally recommend it . Its hard work building ponds, my one took up most of the summer, but IMHO a well designed pond can be so beautiful to look upon and refreshing to see in the summer, and they also often attract interesting wildlife like dragonflies and frogs .
With the kids aspect, if you go for a pre-made pond shell, some ponds can come with a specifically made iron grating to go over them which helps prevent small children falling into the pond and drowning in it etc- my parents both enjoyed keeping goldfish in their pond however they didn't want to get rid of the pond and fish when me and my bro were born, so my dad got a custom made iron grating to go over the pond to make it child safe- i remember it was very strong, even when i was 10yrs old i could still walk on the thing .

 

[BlackSwords11]

Fish will find their own sources of food and as long as the outdoor temp is above 70F they should be fine.

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

Fish will find their own sources of food and as long as the outdoor temp is above 70F they should be fine.

Pond fish which are not fed tend to suffer from some degree of stunted growth a lot, because people often keep goldfish in much higher ratio of fish per gallons in ponds than what is the norm in the wild etc.
All fish are vulnerable to temperature shock, and while goldfish can live in some very cold temperatures, it is not a good idea to put a goldfish which has been living in temps like 20degree's C warm indoors to a freezing 10degree's C warm outdoors pond etc- that would be like you living in the Sahara desert for years on end and then someone suddenly dumping you in the north pole with only a pair of shorts and a t-shirt on. Such a large difference in temp causes immense stress to any type of fish and can kill them. Just because goldfish are hardy fish, doesn't mean that their hardiness should be abused.