how to selectively breed guppies

[itiwhetu]

for the first year, i don't need it to completely breed true. i just need the dumbo gene to not be recessive

photos???

Here are some photos from the book. This is the sort of outdated stuff we were doing in 1976 @Rocky998, thought you would enjoy it.

 

[Rocky998]

Here are some photos from the book. This is the sort of outdated stuff we were doing in 1976 @Rocky998, thought you would enjoy it.
View attachment 155308View attachment 155309View attachment 155310View attachment 155311

 

[ClownLurch]

Grab a copy of this book
View attachment 155093View attachment 155094

I’m still looking. £67 or similar on eBay U.K.!

 

[ClownLurch]

I’m still looking. £67 or similar on eBay U.K.!

It’s gone as well.

 

[Slammin’ Aquascaping]

OK… I hope I’m not too late, but I love breeding guppies, and I know all about it.

For my method, you buy or take a male and a female guppy with a characteristic that you like. A characteristic can be something like a pattern, a color, a tail shape, etc. Then you breed them and raise the fry together until they’re about 3 to 4 weeks old.

Then, you want to start separating them. You want to separate the males and females [the best way to tell them apart is their dorsal fin] do you want to check every day to make sure that you have separated every single male and female.This is crucial so that the females don’t get pregnant with males that you reject [not showing your characteristic]. Then, you raise them up till you’re sure they are mature, which is around three months.
Once you think they are mature, take the mail that shows the characteristic that you’d like the most, and cross him with one of his sisters that shows the trait also and at the same time should have a good round belly.

You breed them and then you raise up those fry. Now it is time to add new blood. I like to think of this as a time to add a new characteristic and make any adjustments that you would like.

Keep the female from the same blood as before, and buy or take a new male that is not related to the female guppy that you have selected.
Cross them and repeat. I like to do this for 6 to 8 generations and sometimes I even do it for up to 12.

Once you’ve reached the point where you think you have perfected your characteristic, put the guppies that you have perfected in a main tank, such as a 20 gallon or more, so they can go crazy. you can take out any of the odd ones that you want to reject and my preferred way of doing it is not to kill the rejects but instead to go and give them back to a fish store as a donation. that way, they can hopefully live a happy life with someone else who may or may not wanted to breed that strain that you have by mistake created.


This selective breeding process is a similar process to line breeding, and it requires a lot of tanks and effort. But above all, it requires a buttload of patience.


A few things to note:
- The females you select MUST be virgin
- Once you to start do not give up
- Once the female is pregnant, separate her from the male to reduce stress on her, and the fry



Here are some images if that was confusing:

 

[Sgooosh]

OK… I hope I’m not too late, but I love breeding guppies, and I know all about it.

For my method, you buy or take a male and a female guppy with a characteristic that you like. A characteristic can be something like a pattern, a color, a tail shape, etc. Then you breed them and raise the fry together until they’re about 3 to 4 weeks old.

Then, you want to start separating them. You want to separate the males and females [the best way to tell them apart is their dorsal fin] do you want to check every day to make sure that you have separated every single male and female.This is crucial so that the females don’t get pregnant with males that you reject [not showing your characteristic]. Then, you raise them up till you’re sure they are mature, which is around three months.
Once you think they are mature, take the mail that shows the characteristic that you’d like the most, and cross him with one of his sisters that shows the trait also and at the same time should have a good round belly.

You breed them and then you raise up those fry. Now it is time to add new blood. I like to think of this as a time to add a new characteristic and make any adjustments that you would like.

Keep the female from the same blood as before, and buy or take a new male that is not related to the female guppy that you have selected.
Cross them and repeat. I like to do this for 6 to 8 generations and sometimes I even do it for up to 12.

Once you’ve reached the point where you think you have perfected your characteristic, put the guppies that you have perfected in a main tank, such as a 20 gallon or more, so they can go crazy. you can take out any of the odd ones that you want to reject and my preferred way of doing it is not to kill the rejects but instead to go and give them back to a fish store as a donation. that way, they can hopefully live a happy life with someone else who may or may not wanted to breed that strain that you have by mistake created.


This selective breeding process is a similar process to line breeding, and it requires a lot of tanks and effort. But above all, it requires a buttload of patience.


A few things to note:
- The females you select MUST be virgin
- Once you to start do not give up
- Once the female is pregnant, separate her from the male to reduce stress on her, and the fry



Here are some images if that was confusing:
View attachment 313074
View attachment 313075
View attachment 313076

thanks, this is very helpful
I will selectively breed them in the small tank and put the culls in the large community tank

 

[emeraldking]

OK… I hope I’m not too late, but I love breeding guppies, and I know all about it.

For my method, you buy or take a male and a female guppy with a characteristic that you like. A characteristic can be something like a pattern, a color, a tail shape, etc. Then you breed them and raise the fry together until they’re about 3 to 4 weeks old.

Then, you want to start separating them. You want to separate the males and females [the best way to tell them apart is their dorsal fin] do you want to check every day to make sure that you have separated every single male and female.This is crucial so that the females don’t get pregnant with males that you reject [not showing your characteristic]. Then, you raise them up till you’re sure they are mature, which is around three months.
Once you think they are mature, take the mail that shows the characteristic that you’d like the most, and cross him with one of his sisters that shows the trait also and at the same time should have a good round belly.

You breed them and then you raise up those fry. Now it is time to add new blood. I like to think of this as a time to add a new characteristic and make any adjustments that you would like.

Keep the female from the same blood as before, and buy or take a new male that is not related to the female guppy that you have selected.
Cross them and repeat. I like to do this for 6 to 8 generations and sometimes I even do it for up to 12.

Once you’ve reached the point where you think you have perfected your characteristic, put the guppies that you have perfected in a main tank, such as a 20 gallon or more, so they can go crazy. you can take out any of the odd ones that you want to reject and my preferred way of doing it is not to kill the rejects but instead to go and give them back to a fish store as a donation. that way, they can hopefully live a happy life with someone else who may or may not wanted to breed that strain that you have by mistake created.


This selective breeding process is a similar process to line breeding, and it requires a lot of tanks and effort. But above all, it requires a buttload of patience.


A few things to note:
- The females you select MUST be virgin
- Once you to start do not give up
- Once the female is pregnant, separate her from the male to reduce stress on her, and the fry



Here are some images if that was confusing:
View attachment 313074
View attachment 313075
View attachment 313076

I do miss one thing that you haven't mentioned, that's the genetic background of the first breeding pair and the coming generations. It's better to know the genetic history of both breeder fish (so their genotype) than using their phenotype as a foundation to set up a new line. For a certain phenotype doesn't mean that it's the same genotype as a logical source.

You can use the mendelian system but that's just a theoretical system that can be used but won't always be accurate if you want to linebreed. But it will give a clear diagram of how it should proceed. Because this structure of breeding is not a 100% accurate, selecting is in order in every next generation. Which reflects a bit of what you've been saying. If you have crossed two types of guppies, assuming that the female used is a virgin, the offspring will have genes of both parents. But the combination of those inherited genes will make the phenotype of the each individual offspring. Which mean that the whole offspring will have the same gene combination or different. And which genes will be dominant, double dominant, triple dominant, recessive, double recessive or triple recessive in such a gene combination. This goes for both male and female. And is a certain trait, X-, Y-linked or autosomal? But as already been said by me, a certain phenotype doesn't have to mean that it's equal to the genotype.

Buying a female guppy from the store won't guarantee that she's not storing any sperm packets from a former mating or matings. They can stores perm packets for over a year. As you already mentioned, use always virgin females.

The way you've been saying it, needs more generations to get the job done. And that they will breed true. It's better to use a female guppy where you know of that she will pass the traits of her own strain recessively. That will put the number of generations down to create a new strain that will breed true.

And if you want the desired trait that those males have in your future females, use females of that line that aren't XX females but YY females. Such females will show the same traits (less present than in a male) as those males. And those traits can be seen in the fins and partially the saddle or caudal penducle. That's also the last step of linebreeding to own a true breeding strain.

I'm a huge guppy fan as well and I do use linebreeding as well.

 

[Sgooosh]

I do miss one thing that you haven't mentioned, that's the genetic background of the first breeding pair and the coming generations. It's better to know the genetic history of both breeder fish (so their genotype) than using their phenotype as a foundation to set up a new line. For a certain phenotype doesn't mean that it's the same genotype as a logical source.

You can use the mendelian system but that's just a theoretical system that can be used but won't always be accurate if you want to linebreed. But it will give a clear diagram of how it should proceed. Because this structure of breeding is not a100% accurate, selecting is in order in every next generation. Which reflects a bit of what you've been saying. If you have crossed two types of guppies, assuming that the female used is a virgin, the offspring will have genes of both parents. But the combination of those inherited genes will make the phenotype of the each individual offspring. Which mean that the whole offspring will have the same gene combination or different. And which genes will be dominant, double dominant, triple dominant, recessive, double recessive or triple recessive in such a gene combination. This goes for both male and female. And is a certain trait, X-, Y-linked or autosomal? But as already been said by me, a certain phenotype doesn't have to mean that it's equal to the genotype.

Buying a female guppy from the store won't guarantee that she's not storing any sperm packets from a former mating or matings. They can stores perm packets for over a year. As you already mentioned, use always virgin females.

The way you've ben saying it, needs more generations to get the job done. And that they will breed true. It's better to use a female guppy where you know of that she will pass the traits of her own strain recessively. That will put the number of generations down to create a new strain that will breed true.

And if you want the desired trait that those males have in your future females, use females of that line that aren't XX females but YY females. Such females will show the same traits (less present than in a male) as those males. And those traits can be seen in the fins and partially the saddle or caudal penducle. That's also the last step of linebreeding to own a true breeding strain.

I'm a huge guppy fan as well and I do use linebreeding as well.

how do you know the genotypes of a fish? do you buy them from specific sites?
Sometimes i buy a female from the fish store, and it is already pregnant with babies that are the same look as them
I cannot find a male that corresponds to the female though.
Is there any way I can make it so that the female can make a whole new colony of the same look?

 

[emeraldking]

how do you know the genotypes of a fish? do you buy them from specific sites?
Sometimes i buy a female from the fish store, and it is already pregnant with babies that are the same look as them
I cannot find a male that corresponds to the female though.
Is there any way I can make it so that the female can make a whole new colony of the same look?

That depends on her genetic background wether her babies will look like her or not. As long as you don't know the genetic background, you can not say for sure what the outcome will be. And just wait how the offspring will turn out. If the whole batch of offspring the same phenotype, you can use them.

In general, when you buy a guppy from a store, those guppies are provided by a wholesaler which keeps the strains separate from eachother. When a retailer orders a mix of guppies, one of the employees at the wholesaler will take some out of different tanks to make a mix. But when they're still in their own tank as a strain at the wholesaler, males and females of the same kind are only swimming in there. But it also means that the possibility that a female has already mated with a male is real. if you want to cross such a female with another type of male guppy, better use her female offspring.

But if the female is of an existing strain, you can make a profile of her genotype by looking at her phenotype. And again, only if she is from a true breeding strain. If she's from a mixed background, it's of no use to make a profile of her genotype by looking at her phenotype. You need to know certain basics of guppy genetics in order to know what phenotypical trait is dominant or recessive. if you don't know these basics, it's of no use to make an estimation of her genetic background. It's also of no use to state that a darker color will always be dominant over a lighter color, for instance.

And even if a female is from an pure breeding strains, once she mates with another type of male, the outcome of the offspring can be totally different to repeat myself.

If you really want specific traits for a guppy strain, it's better to get your breeding fish from a serious private breeder. Or take a look on the internet for an online store or platform where such guppies are offered instead of going to a store.

I myself have a sufficient knowledge of guppy genetics.

 

[Slammin’ Aquascaping]

I do miss one thing that you haven't mentioned, that's the genetic background of the first breeding pair and the coming generations. It's better to know the genetic history of both breeder fish (so their genotype) than using their phenotype as a foundation to set up a new line. For a certain phenotype doesn't mean that it's the same genotype as a logical source.

You can use the mendelian system but that's just a theoretical system that can be used but won't always be accurate if you want to linebreed. But it will give a clear diagram of how it should proceed. Because this structure of breeding is not a 100% accurate, selecting is in order in every next generation. Which reflects a bit of what you've been saying. If you have crossed two types of guppies, assuming that the female used is a virgin, the offspring will have genes of both parents. But the combination of those inherited genes will make the phenotype of the each individual offspring. Which mean that the whole offspring will have the same gene combination or different. And which genes will be dominant, double dominant, triple dominant, recessive, double recessive or triple recessive in such a gene combination. This goes for both male and female. And is a certain trait, X-, Y-linked or autosomal? But as already been said by me, a certain phenotype doesn't have to mean that it's equal to the genotype.

Buying a female guppy from the store won't guarantee that she's not storing any sperm packets from a former mating or matings. They can stores perm packets for over a year. As you already mentioned, use always virgin females.

The way you've been saying it, needs more generations to get the job done. And that they will breed true. It's better to use a female guppy where you know of that she will pass the traits of her own strain recessively. That will put the number of generations down to create a new strain that will breed true.

And if you want the desired trait that those males have in your future females, use females of that line that aren't XX females but YY females. Such females will show the same traits (less present than in a male) as those males. And those traits can be seen in the fins and partially the saddle or caudal penducle. That's also the last step of linebreeding to own a true breeding strain.

I'm a huge guppy fan as well and I do use linebreeding as well.

I was going to say, but it gets a bit confusing with genetics. Generally, I use my own guppies for breeding, and I have a only female tank. If you are buying fish, always buy from the only female tanks. And what you were saying about breeding true is correct. This method will almost NEVER make the strain true.

 

[emeraldking]

If you are buying fish, always buy from the only female tanks.

But it doesn't quarantee that a female from such a only female tank at the store won't be storing sperm of a former mating. For at the wholesaler males and females of the same strain will be kept together. And for sure at the fish farm who bred them. But I do get your point, btw...

 

[Sgooosh]

That depends on her genetic background wether her babies will look like her or not. As long as you don't know the genetic background, you can not say for sure what the outcome will be. And just wait how the offspring will turn out. If the whole batch of offspring the same phenotype, you can use them.

In general, when you buy a guppy from a store, those guppies are provided by a wholesaler which keeps the strains separate from eachother. When a retailer orders a mix of guppies, one of the employees at the wholesaler will take some out of different tanks to make a mix. But when they're still in their own tank as a strain at the wholesaler, males and females of the same kind are only swimming in there. But it also means that the possibility that a female has already mated with a male is real. if you want to cross such a female with another type of male guppy, better use her female offspring.

But if the female is of an existing strain, you can make a profile of her genotype by looking at her phenotype. And again, only if she is from a true breeding strain. If she's from a mixed background, it's of no use to make a profile of her genotype by looking at her phenotype. You need to know certain basics of guppy genetics in order to know what phenotypical trait is dominant or recessive. if you don't know these basics, it's of no use to make an estimation of her genetic background. It's also of no use to state that a darker color will always be dominant over a lighter color, for instance.

And even if a female is from an pure breeding strains, once she mates with another type of male, the outcome of the offspring can be totally different to repeat myself.

If you really want specific traits for a guppy strain, it's better to get your breeding fish from a serious private breeder. Or take a look on the internet for an online store or platform where such guppies are offered instead of going to a store.

I myself have a sufficient knowledge of guppy genetics.

I was going to say, but it gets a bit confusing with genetics. Generally, I use my own guppies for breeding, and I have a only female tank. If you are buying fish, always buy from the only female tanks. And what you were saying about breeding true is correct. This method will almost NEVER make the strain true.

i've found that the females in the big box stores are pregnant with males and females of the same species, so i can keep repeating this as well
I will probably just stick to colony or line breeding and put culls into the large tank

 

[Slammin’ Aquascaping]

thanks, this is very helpful
I will selectively breed them in the small tank and put the culls in the large community tank

Just remember that you can never be prepared enough for anything. Try to get an extra small tank or two, because the rejects will need a temporary home before you know what to do with them, and there are some other possibilities such as where you put the parents when you are raising the fry (if it isn’t clear enough, the fry shouldn’t be in the tank with the parents because they can get eaten.

 

[Sgooosh]

Just remember that you can never be prepared enough for anything. Try to get an extra small tank or two, because the rejects will need a temporary home before you know what to do with them, and there are some other possibilities such as where you put the parents when you are raising the fry (if it isn’t clear enough, the fry shouldn’t be in the tank with the parents because they can get eaten.

yes, I have 2 unused tanks, I will use them both for just guppy breeding

 

[Slammin’ Aquascaping]

yes, I have 2 unused tanks, I will use them both for just guppy breeding

That’s perfect. But if there is ANY sign, and I mean ANY sign of something you may need to address with more tanks, and don’t be shy, because you dont want to be in the situation where you are running to people because you can’t house your guppies.