How to determine if enough algae for otocinclus

[Beastije]

I read through a lot of posts here on this forum and several articles on otocinclus, and because I always wanted them, I have started thinking about getting them again, but I am not sure if the tank can support them, so looking for a feedback.

They would go to my 360l, which has been running past 10 years, past 6 months with the current fish (14 corydoras sterbai, 8 hatchetfish, 40 ember tetras, 5 tylomelania snails, 2 bamboo shrimp) and wood and plants. I do not have an abundance of plants, lot of floating, hornwort, egeria densa, limnobium, one massive echinodorus and several anubias plants. Not a planted tank for sure. I would also put them in there after I get a handle on the possible wood rot and the cory missing barbels, not right now.

I do not have a visible algae growth, I have some black algae on anubias, sure, I have green spots on the glass, sure, but neither is the prefered algae for otos.
I have lot of wood with biofilm, I have several leaves scattered in the tank, I feed weekly with one vegetable and some algae wafer. I have few stones that have some algae growth and I have several stones on a windowsill hoping they will grow algae too. I also have a shrimp tank that has layers of green hair algae (cladophora), that I could always scoop out and drop to this tank, unless the shrimp eat it all in the future. I also have algae covered stones in the shrimp tank, again, I could move them here, if the shrimp dont clean them out first.

The otos I would get would be locally bread, not an import.

Will this setup be able to feed 10 otos, given that I feed the additional suggested supplements to the snails already, or should I rather not attempt it?

 

[Colin_T]

The tank is old enough and should have lots of biofilm. But if you could get some green algae growing on the back glass, that should do the job.

You can put smooth rocks in buckets of water out the back yard so they are in full sun. The algae will grow quicker and you can swap them around. however, this won't work in cold climates where it snows

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Completely off topic. But they used to make the nicest Christmas decorations in Czechoslovakia, do they still make ornamental glass Christmas decorations there?

 

[Beastije]

I have rocks on windowsill in water where sun shines, but I am not seeing the nice carpet algae, but some floating bits only. And the water evaporates from it quite fast (maybe the dogs are at fault there). I have way nicer algae growth in the shrimp tank on stones, not sure how to achieve it. Will try to put it outside maybe that is the key.
Since the tank is sideways, the back glass is just the narrow side and there is the filter and heater, so maybe not ideal for otos, but will see. I will try to keep one side not cleaned, but spot algae is not their favorite.

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Regarding your offtopic, yes, most of the glassworks are on Czech grounds, so even after Czechoslovakia separation, we still have very nice Christmas ornaments. Just not many people actually use glass ones now, cause it is a disaster in the making. I like drinking glass more or whiskey carafe, bohemia glass is still prime quality, I have this whiskey one.

 

[Beastije]

So, back to this. I got 10 otocinclus, I no longer trust the breeder that they are locally bred, they are also most likely not the type he said they are. It has been two weeks and now I can only count 6, I saw 2 dead bodies only, so who knows how many there are. I will see after they pass the two month mark, if they survived or not.
However, I want more after that, I am thinking like 10 or 15 perhaps.
The tank is not that much stocked with plants, but there are lot of fast growing plants, like hornwort, lemna minor, Limnobium, najas and even egeria densa. Sure I have some cryptocoryne, echinodoras, anubias and other slow plants.
Should I remove the hornwort and leave just the rest, to make sure not all nutrients are removed from the water to give more algae a chance?
Or should I use fertilizers ( I dont now, I dont trust them much, copper, whatnot)

On the other hand the top that is filled with the plants was supposed to be safe space for tetra, so not sure if I should remove the hornwort or not. tough choices

 

[Beastije]

What options do I have:
I have two fists of java moss
I have some java fern, a large pieces and a smaller piece
I have some riccia also

I could take away just the hornwort and replace with the moss perhaps?

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

Try to get the otos feeding on supplimental algae discs/wafers.

I'm not sure if removing plants would be beneficial, I feel like that's more likely to cause the wrong types of algae to grow, you know? And otos don't eat problem algae like hair algae. Perhaps try increasing the light period a little?

 

[Naughts]

I no longer trust the breeder that they are locally bred,

I was surprised that they were bred in captivity as this is very rare.

The plants are working for your fish, I like your stocking of embers, cories and hatchets. I would be more inclined to keep the plants but not replace the otos. I feel bad when otos are wild-caught then die in captivity ( I feel they are tricky for the average fish keeper to care for). Once your cories are healthy you could add a second shoal of cories, with similar requirements but from a different lineage so they won't hybridise. Maybe I am biased because I have been unsuccessful in maintaining a healthy shoal of otos though, listen to someone who can keep them thriving long term.

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

I was surprised that they were bred in captivity as this is very rare.

The plants are working for your fish, I like your stocking of embers, cories and hatchets. I would be more inclined to keep the plants but not replace the otos. I feel bad when otos are wild-caught then die in captivity ( I feel they are tricky for the average fish keeper to care for). Once your cories are healthy you could add a second shoal of cories, with similar requirements but from a different lineage so they won't hybridise. Maybe I am biased because I have been unsuccessful in maintaining a healthy shoal of otos though, listen to someone who can keep them thriving long term.

I kept a good number going for a few years in a much smaller tank, but it was well planted, algae grew readily, and they accept(ed) supplimental algae wafers too.

I too feel terrible about what wild-caught otos go through (and nearly all are wild caught) and the inevitable losses, but with otocinclus being so in demand in the hobby, I feel like the only way to change things is by good keepers keeping them in decent sized school numbers, and learning how to breed them in captivity. I have a hunch that they need a decent number of them to breed, like cories prefer to spawn when in a group, and some people have managed to breed a few in captivity.

This guy has successfully bred otos - even if you don't intend to try breeding them, then you might pick up some good tips for how best to care for them, @Beastije

 

[Slaphppy7]

Along with algae wafers, try blanched veggies....my otos love them

 

[Fishfinder1973]

Rotate the cleaning of the glass,first the front,the sides the following week and the back the week after that to keep a steady amount of biofilm.my otos live off biofilm and are healthy.

 

[Colin_T]

Leave the Hornwort so you don't stress the tetras.
Don't add Java Moss, it won't help.

Most good aquarium plant fertilisers don't have copper in them. If they do it's only a tiny amount that will not harm the fish.

Increase lighting times up to 16 hours a day to encourage algae.

Don't wipe the back or sides of the tank down unless the fish are eating other foods, so they can graze on the biofilm there.

 

[Beastije]

Thank you guys. Good thing about the breeder bought pros is, they are already used to wafers and vegetables. I feed both to my snails regularly and the otos are first there and i had to increase the number of pieces i provided because of them. I even saw an to surface surfing for fish food i just provided. Maybe he buys wild caught but nurses them better than a fish store would.
I did cleanup of the egeria cause the echinodoras is dying out and three fast growing plants don't work with it. I put it all out, will keep it in the buckets and vases and will give the other plants q week or two reprieve combined with small dose of feritlizer i used in last water change. Will see how the otos do

 

[Beastije]

I was surprised that they were bred in captivity as this is very rare.

The plants are working for your fish, I like your stocking of embers, cories and hatchets. I would be more inclined to keep the plants but not replace the otos. I feel bad when otos are wild-caught then die in captivity ( I feel they are tricky for the average fish keeper to care for). Once your cories are healthy you could add a second shoal of cories, with similar requirements but from a different lineage so they won't hybridise. Maybe I am biased because I have been unsuccessful in maintaining a healthy shoal of otos though, listen to someone who can keep them thriving long term.

I am not sure the corydoras will ever be healthy. It has been three months, he is still blind, his barbels are still missing and i am pretty sure it is more of a wishful thinking on my part that they may be growing back.
You would add another shoal? Thought 14 is enough, especially if they ever breed they may increase their own shoal naturally. I would love maybe some pygmy or small corydoras but the space and food competition would be maybe too much for my tank

 

[Beastije]

Btw i So should have made a video of this, i always break the wafer to small pieces so that everyone gets some, but the otocinclus were sucking on the corydoras trying to make it drop the piece so it could latch onto it ) fun fish

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

Thank you guys. Good thing about the breeder bought pros is, they are already used to wafers and vegetables. I feed both to my snails regularly and the otos are first there and i had to increase the number of pieces i provided because of them. I even saw an to surface surfing for fish food i just provided. Maybe he buys wild caught but nurses them better than a fish store would.
I did cleanup of the egeria cause the echinodoras is dying out and three fast growing plants don't work with it. I put it all out, will keep it in the buckets and vases and will give the other plants q week or two reprieve combined with small dose of feritlizer i used in last water change. Will see how the otos do

Do you use root tabs for any of the plants? Liquid ferts are useful, but swords (echinodorus) are greedy root feeders, and really need root tabs to thrive (and to stop them stealing all the nutrients from every other plant, they spread some impressive root systems!). Might just need more root tabs more often sticking under there!