How Many To Plants To Make Tank Self Sustaining

[nortonmad213]

hi, so i know there have been talks of how often do you need to do water changes and often the answer correlates to the amount of plants you have in the tank.
i was just wondering how many plants would you require to make the tank self sustain?
or is it the case that there just isn't enough volume to even out any spikes in the mean time.
thanks in advance

 

[Barb-barian]

from all the reading I have done, plants are beneficial yes but it does not remove the need for water changes.  The more plants in tank does increase the amount of chemicals consumed by the plants.  but as far as self sustaining goes the mini eco system we like to call aquariums dont have the capabilities to remove all the stuff that living organisms produce.  Even in streams and lakes they are getting "water changes" through the natural water cycle (you know evaporation, rain so on and so forth.  

 

[nortonmad213]

i thought that would be the case
i'm not trying to make my tank self sustaining
but i saw these
http/www.eco-sphere.com/
and was wondering if it was possible to do the same with fish tanks.

 

[Tongue_Flicker]

The ability to achieve homeostasis without any mechanical devices or human intervetion in an indoor tank is virtually nil.

I guess you could use the 5 trees per human principle for oxygen-carbon dioxide cycle. Dunno how to scale that to size for fishes to aquatic plants though lol

 

[TwoTankAmin]

It takes a planet to make a self sustaining ecosystem and even that won't last forever.

 

[DreamertK]

Didn't someone a while back post about these same glass ball tanks with shrimps in them, where the shrimps were on the verge of extinction being hunted for these things and then eventually dying in a month anyway?
 
I actually like seeing the terrestrial ones with plants inside of it.
 
But the thing about WC's is that it gets rid of chemicals that we just dont have the ability to test for: fish hormones, growth factor, decaying cells, hormones ovulating shrimp use to attract males, ext that just stay in the tank inhibiting growth until the WC.

 

[nortonmad213]

i saw those ecospheres which purely just have plants in there which is where this originally got me started thinking about it.
but like you said with fish in there, there is a requirement to get rid of all the rubbish that cant evapourate off.
hence WC's lol

 

[Lunades]

I heard that it may be possible to have a self-sustaining tank but that there are a very large number of things to check off along the food chain to make this possible. I don't know if this helps, but I have a link to something I read a while back. I'd be very interested to know if it actually works as well.

As far as decreasing water changes go, I feel like maaaybe it would help if you are using filter animals? I hear clams help ease the bioload.

https://pethelpful.com/fish-aquariums/sustainableaquarium

 

[StevenF]

ecospheres typically have salt water, a very small salt water shrimp and algae . Some Ecospheres have had a stable population of shrimp for decades. Unfortunately most people don't give them enough light and the shrimp eventually die off after a few months to years.

I have never seen a larger one with fish in it or found any on the web that have lasted for more than a few months.. in theory it is possible to do but it is probably not easy and probably requires an extremely large tank with very few small shrimp.

 

[flchamp89]

Read walstads book

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[NickAu]

Read walstads book

Yes that is correct.

This method of setting up an aquarium tank was made popular by Diana Walstad, author of the book 'ECOLOGY of the PLANTED AQUARIUM - A Practical Manual and Scientific Treatise for the Home Aquarist'. Basically it's a natural planted tank with a substrate containing a soil underlayer.

Walstad method - The Free Freshwater and Saltwater Aquarium

 

[StevenF]

As far as decreasing water changes go, I feel like maaaybe it would help if you are using filter animals? I hear clams help ease the bioload.

Clams mainly feed on bacteria and algae floating in the water. However in a small self sustaining environment there is likely very little floating in the water. Shrimp is a much better choice. They feed on the same things but they get them off of the substrate and plant leaves and will feed on any other dead animals or plants in the environment. Also if you get the smallest fresh water shrimp available they might be a valuable foo source for small fish. Although the shrimp would have to breed very fast to supply the needs of the fish.

 

[StandbySetting]

Old thread...

 

[AbbeysDad]

Nature 'freshens' fresh water all the time with rain. A heavily planted tank can reduce the need for large volume weekly water changes as growing plants help purify the water.

To the claim that water changes are necessary to remove pheromones, urine and other waste, these are merely organic compounds that decomposition bacteria break down into relatively harmless elements.
Still, partial fresh water changes in any system are beneficial.

When one considers the Walstad method, you need to take into account that Diana had/has well planted tanks and very few fish - far fewer fish (numbers and size) than would be found in most average aquariums.

I Imagine, for example, if you had like 6 Neon Tetras in a heavily planted 20g (or larger) tank, fed normally, you could do a 5-10g partial water change like once a month (or maybe even a 5g weekly water change).
However, for the masses, a partial weekly water change of 20-50% is the easiest way to maintain a high water quality for our fish.

 

[flchamp89]

Agreed. Low fauna high flora tips scales in favor of the aquarist

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