How Many "inches" Is A Kuhli Loach?

[xoedusk]

Any thoughts on what a good estimate of a grown Kuhli loach's "inch" is? I'm thinking less than their adult size of 3.5 inches since they are so small. I ask because we currently have 3 in a 10 gallon, with a betta incoming. Just want to know if we can give the little guys some more company.

We do weekly water changes of ~35%, with small vacs in between if need be. Using an AquaClear hang on back filter rated for 20 gallons, on the "low" setting (for the eventual betta).

They love to play in the bubbles from the airstone, btw!

 

[starrynightxxi]

couldn't tell you for sure, but i have 5 (with their adult size being 4-5 inches, that's 20-25 inches) in a 10g with some other fish and a nomal topfin 10g filter and the stats are completely unaffected despite what one would expect to be a massive overload.

 

[xoedusk]

couldn't tell you for sure, but i have 5 (with their adult size being 4-5 inches, that's 20-25 inches) in a 10g with some other fish and a nomal topfin 10g filter and the stats are completely unaffected despite what one would expect to be a massive overload.

Thanks, starry.

 

[Lateral Line]

The "inch per gallon rule" is not a stocking suggestion, it is a absolute limit. Loaches naturally live in clean, flowing, well oxygenated water, (hence the bubble fetish).

 

[starrynightxxi]

not that i'm trying to start an argument, but it's often touted here by members that the inch-per-gallon rule isn't a valid way of measuring the waste fish produce. Many members stock their tank levels (bottom, middle, top) regardless of the inches of [small-bodied] fish.

My stats are normal (0,0,10 before i left for thanksgiving break), with aerator/filter currents, so although you think a ten may not be ideal (i refuse to try to catch them again until i get my 29 set up), they seem to be doing fine.

However i wholeheartedly agree with their need for clean water, and not just clean water, but clean substrate. When i first switched to sand/super-fine gravel i was sucking up a lot of it and stopped doing gravel vacs until i got large tubing - though i continued changing the water - and managed to kill a few loaches. No other fish got sick and as soon as I started cleaning the substrate again, the kuhlis got better.

 

[DarkEntity]

I gotta say i never use the 1" per Gall rule either. It was a good idea imo when filters etc werent that great, but now you can get seriosuly good filtration so can overstock in certain instances aslong as its done sensibly.

 

[xoedusk]

Thank you all for the great replies. Right now we have 3 kuhlis and 1 betta in a 10 gallon tank, filtered by an AquaClear 20 (set to the lowest flow rate), air bubbles going for the kuhlis. Weekly water changes of 30%. What do you all think of giving the 3 kuhlis another buddy, to make it 4 kuhlis, 1 betta? Picture of tank in signature.

 

[Lateral Line]

Even at 1" per gallon, the tank is stocked at a much higher level then is found in nature. In nature, most fish are normally in large bodies of water in an open system, tanks are small bodies in a closed circuit.

Filters, (bacteria), and plants are very accomplished at converting ammonia->nitrite->nitrate, but these are not the only waste products from fish. They secrete hormones, allochemicals and various other things into the water, these are untouched by filters.

Overstocking is a bad idea.

 

[krishanu]

i personally have no faith in the 'one inch per gallon' rule. how a two inch khuli and a two inch puffer can be compared in terms of bioload is beyond me! as a general guide i think its okay, but as others have said, with the development in filtration technology, the number of fish you can accomodate in a tank has increased significantly. i also believe, that if you're tank ammonia, nitrate and nitrite levels are in control, you should be fine.

 

[OohFeeshy]

Even at 1" per gallon, the tank is stocked at a much higher level then is found in nature. In nature, most fish are normally in large bodies of water in an open system, tanks are small bodies in a closed circuit.

You really can't compare a tank to the wild. In the wild, very few of the species we keep together ever meet. Some don't even exist in the wild.


I barely even count kuhlis, (BTW, max size is more like 3", not 5). Currently I've got about 10, 5 or so sparkling gouramis, two BW tetras, 3 betta smarags and a yellow-fin eel in a 2x1x1. Apart from when some of the sparklers got sucked into the filter, water quality, fine.

 

[nmonks]

Funny how these questions keep coming up. I've just written (at length) why the inches-per-gallon rule is misleading here.

Cheers,

Neale

 

[Lateral Line]

You really can't compare a tank to the wild. In the wild,

I agree, but why aspire to inflicting upon the tanks inhabitants conditions which are more reminiscent of a fish soup than their natural habitat?

Neale:

Bubbles certainly do cause the surface of the water to be other then flat, thus having a larger surface area, but that is not the biggest effect. Gas exchange at the surface means that the surface layer of water has a higher concentration of O2 in it, thus the rate at which O2 further disolves in the water is lowered. By generating an upwash around the bubble column, water with a lower O2 concentration is brought to the surface where O2 can disolve at a higher rate across the larger concentration difference. Thus the circulation that an airstone creates is an important factor.

 

[OohFeeshy]

All tanks are overstocked compared to the wild, it's just the degree at which that ratio is.

 

[nmonks]

This makes sense. I suppose the important thing is getting as much water to the air/water interface as frequently as possible.

It presumably doesn't actually matter whether it's an airstone, a convection current around the heater, or the flow of water through an electric filter: so long as water from the bottom of the tank is being brought up to the surface, then extra oxygen is going to get in.

Thanks!

Neale

Neale:

Bubbles certainly do cause the surface of the water to be other then flat, thus having a larger surface area, but that is not the biggest effect. Gas exchange at the surface means that the surface layer of water has a higher concentration of O2 in it, thus the rate at which O2 further disolves in the water is lowered. By generating an upwash around the bubble column, water with a lower O2 concentration is brought to the surface where O2 can disolve at a higher rate across the larger concentration difference. Thus the circulation that an airstone creates is an important factor.

 

[Lateral Line]

It presumably doesn't actually matter whether it's an airstone,

Precisely.

It is the O2 concentration gradient which is the factor. O2 disolves quickly in low O2 water, slowly, eventually not at all, into O2 saturated water.

The converse is also true. Heavily planted tank keepers with CO2 injection try to reduce the gas exchange, as CO2 comes out of solution very easily. They try to minimise surface movement to hold their CO2 in solution long enough for the plants to take it up. For similar reasons, serious planted tank owners tend to have few, if any fish in their tanks.