How do you cull?

[wuvmybetta]

Tough subject for some.

I personally don't cull,as can clearly be seen by my overwhelming number of fish.
I don't want to attack anybody because tons of betta breeders keep a small handful from a spawn and kill off the rest. I just can't It seems so wrong.
As does the entire flowerhorn situation,sorry Ral. But why not sell them as a lot on Aquabid? Or to your lfs? I'd take three for crying out loud.

Back to bettas, some breeders kill anything that is less than perfect Not just because they don't have the room. Personally I find that appalling and bad karma .
I know there are just as many breeders who DON'T cull (Jim Sonnier for one). So I suppose if you don't have the room,don't breed.
I'm dying for a new spawn right now,but I'm also strapped for shelving room so I need to rearrange to house another tank for a grow out. Until then, I have to wait.

Last summer I managed to adopt out dozens of fish to members on the forum and I plan to start the program back up within the next couple of weeks so that everybody is already adopted before shipping season arrives.

 

[Elisabeth83]

I never knew people culled healthy fish. I thought it was only the deformed or sickly ones. There has to be an alternative to just killing them??

I would try and ask around to see if any of your family, friends, people here on the forum or fish stores near you would consider take them off your hands. Maybe even an ad in the paper offering them for free?

 

[Sorrell]

Check out bettacave.com and read his spawn journals...he is ruthless

 

[wuvmybetta]

Check out bettacave.com and read his spawn journals...he is ruthless

I almost mentioned him...but yeah

The very first auction I ever went to, I was sitting beside an older man who breeds and when Phil's fish came up for auction not one of them sold because they were $$$, the breeder leaned over and whispered "tsk,tsk,he feeds his fry to his oscar ",so it's not as acceptable amongst all as it may seem. I suppose if that's something you do,it's something you should keep quiet! Some parade around and let everyone know, if only they knew what we really thought of that. Maybe they do and just don't care

 

[steppy104]

if i were to breed, i would probably make use of the cull by feeding them to my sunfish.

someone mentioned that in nature, the deformed and weak would be eaten anyway, right? it may not feel good to them, but life isn't allways rainbows and sunshine. when it comes down to culling, you can never please everyone with your technique. i'd say pick whichever way you feel is best.

 

[wuvmybetta]

if i were to breed, i would probably make use of the cull by feeding them to my sunfish.

someone mentioned that in nature, the deformed and weak would be eaten anyway, right? it may not feel good to them, but life isn't allways rainbows and sunshine. when it comes down to culling, you can never please everyone with your technique. i'd say pick whichever way you feel is best.

Ok, but how do you justify what's a cull and what's not?

Are we talking deformed fish,or fish that you just don't have the room for,or those who aren't up to par? If it's because of space,don't get into the hobby!

My red spawn is a perfect example because it's so large. Not one deformed fish,not one! But,an overwhelming number of around 300. Three hundred perfect fish,what to do?
As their breeder I've tried my best to take care of everybody. I've pulled the more aggro fish and as for the rest they're just living together in cramped peace.They have taken over my fish room and I've dedicated soooo much time and money to them. I suppose I can tsk tsk at other breeders,but they probably do the same to me for keeping so many. Different strokes for different folks.

Point being, everybodies beautiful and their life is just as valuable as the flashiest of boys. It's not my place to deem them as unworthy of life when I know damn well that somewhere out there, there is someone who would take them and love them. They may not be of any use to me since I can't show them,but that doesn't make them worthless.

EDIT~ I almost forgot the main point. Point is: you can't judge what's a good fish and what's not from such an early age. They really don't start to blossom until they've been jarred. If I was a culler,just imagine the beautiful fish I would have killed because they never had the chance to show their true potential.

 

[Idolz]

The bettacave breeder really aims for perfection....
Instead of giving away a batch that were prolly healthy but just not perfect he "DESTROYED" them

 

[RandomWiktor]

I'm probably going to get bitten for this, buuut
I don't really see the problem with feeding surplus fish to other predatory fish if you do not have the room; it is much less wasteful than just culling them and throwing them away. I hate wasteful killing, but at lets think of a few reasons why it might be a good idea to feed excess betta fry to predatory fish. Really it is no different than feeding rosy reds or feeder goldfish.
- If you can't find good homes for your fry, they'll probably end up in a dinky cup on some yutz's desk, living a short unhealthy life before dying of ick or a fungal infection or drying up after jumping out of its crappy little prison. Whereas a fish who is eaten by another fish is gone pretty fast and doesn't have to suffer for months or even years.
- Feeder goldies and rosy reds are notorious for being filled with parasites, as well as carrying fish TB, Ick, etc. Much like responsible herpatologists will raise and feed their own rodents to their snakes to ensure the highest quality food, fish owners feeding fry to their carnivorous fish will at least be able to assure that the fish being fed wont get sick/die from it.
- Feeding the fry to fish is much less wasteful than dumping them in clove oil and flushing them down the toilet, more humane than beheading since the heads of cold blooded animals can live on for minutes and even hours, and is not supporting the feeder fish industry, which results in many fish suffering and dying in overcrowded tanks in the stores.

However, I personally feel that unless you have pre-destined homes for your fish (ie LFS, individual owners, other breeders, etc.) you SHOULD NOT BE BREEDING. Simple as that. If you breed then have to kill your stock because of a lack of demand, you're no better than people who let their dogs breed year round then just drop the unadopted pups off at the shelter to get the needle.

But, the point of the post was that the person was looking for a good way to euth. and I suppose they got that by now, so I'll just shut up and stop being opinionated now, hehe.

 

[steppy104]

i guess it depends on the breeder on what a cullable deformity is.

 

[Bettaman]

I thought bettaman put them up for adoption on his site.... I want one of his adoption ones. I'm not fussy

I DO PUT THEM UP ITS ONLY IF ONE IS REALLY ILL THAT I HAVE TO DO SOMETHING WITH IT BUT I WILL TRY EVERYTHING BEFORE I DO AND NO AS I SAID ABOVE THE FISH WOULD NOT MAKE IT IN THE WILD SO WE HAVE PUT THEM IN THAT POSITION OF SURVIVING AS THERE ARE NO ADULT BETTAS AROUND FOR THAT QUICK MEAL SO YES IF THEY ARE OK TO GIVE AWAY THEN I WILL ADOPT THEM TO SOMEONE THAT WOULD LIKE A PET FISH AND IS NOT INTERESTED IN BREEDING THEM SOME LFS WILL TAKE THEM BUT THEN THEY SELL THEM SO I DON'T GIVE THEM TO LFS I HAVE NOT HAD MANY I HAVE HAD TO CULL YET MOST HAVE BEEN OK OR HAVE DIED ON THEIR OWN AS THEY COULDN'T EAT OR GET TO THE SURFACE TO BREATH I THINK I HAVE CULLED ABOUT 20 FISH THAT I KNOW WOULD NOT HAVE MADE IT AND AS I SAY GIVE THEM A LETHAL DOSE OF CLOVE OIL BUT IM NOT AFTER A PERFECT COLOUR FISH LIKE SOME BREEDERS AS YOU SAY NOT WHAT THEY WANT THEN GET RID THE EASY WAY.......

 

[ral]

I have considered the option to use them as feeders. Altough sometimes I wonder if dropping them into the Cichlid Pond with 20+ Cihclids is a peaceful way for them to go. On the other hand I do buy feeder fish, so I am proably being terribly biased. If I can throw a feeder guppy in there for the Frontosa's, Flowerhorn and Oscar's to munch on, why not a betta.

I am kind of glad the attempts to spawn with Marvin did not work out, since there are some breeding issues that I am not ready to deal with.

Why cull? So as not to flood the market. In the past all we had at the LFS's were male VT's. Apparently someone from Malaysia decided to sell what other breeders may have culled here. So we now have female CT's, combtails, roundtails as well as CT's flooding into the market. A combtail here only cost as much as a VT.

Was able to pick up 3 impressive CT males (only diplaying minor defects that would keep them from becoming Kelson or Stingray grade fish) all three for only $7. . And I got 6 females for less than $2.

As you can imagine now, breeding CT's here will become pretty cheap. In the past if I wanted to even import a CT breeder pair, that would have cost me $45-50 at least.

One petstore owner told me that they get them for $10 per 100 female CT's. Question do I get into that market and lower the price to $9 per 100 female CT's. Than someone else will come in a bring it down to $8, until we kill each other off.

Or do I try a spawn 200-600 fry and jar only the best and try to sell them for a premium price. I read one of Jim Sonniers spawn logs, and if I read it correctly he only jarred very few (13 if I remember correctly) than closed the log. I am not sure what he does with the rest.

The adoption idea is okay.... but I actually have offered the 48 flowerhorn to anyone for free. I bagged and went around several pet shops leaving them sample fish. I would even deliver to there shop. But shelf space costs, and there are too many flowerhorn breeders.

That was back in December. Now, they are een larger, several over 3" already.

When I have any 2.5 month old fish I am not keeping I would be glad to give them to anyone for free. I really think though when that time comes, no one is going to want to pay the shipping costs for them.

 

[yeeviabetta]

I never knew people culled healthy fish. I thought it was only the deformed or sickly ones. There has to be an alternative to just killing them??

I thought we are talking about culling deformation frys. That is what I do and so far only 12 to 16 have to go. My flowerhorn keep saying I want MORE, MORE, MORE. LOL

 

[Mr Miagi]

If we let all badly deformed fry, it would weaken the gean pool, and have a terrible effect on our hobby.

As for feeding fry etc. to larger predetory fish, i have no troubles, they are small live fish, but they dont suffer, they dont know much, it lasts a few seconds, and they were breed purpously. These pppl didnt just go out, buy fish, and then fed them to there larger fish, they were just born.

Besides (i think ive said this before). Whtas the difference between that and frozen food. Those BS and bloodworm was once live!

 

[ral]

The large predatory fish belong to my girlfriend and her father. So when I am in the LFS I buy feeders, but try not to look at them too much and I am not the one doing the feeding. I probably would do something stupid like rescue a feeder from the jaws of death and put him in a aquarium.

Unfortunately, the kind of culling I am talking about here is the more controversial kind. Been talking to several professesional breeders lately, and am trying to see whether I could do that as a sideline. Asked about culling here since I was not too crazy about the culling metod suggested (i.e. just put them out in the sun to dry... apparently, they are good fertilizer ).

Anyway, the suggestion is if you have enough mating pairs, than you can run multiple spawns. Spawning several fish side by side is not much more time consuming than running a signel spawn. Since large plastic basin are to used for both spawning and even larger ones for growout, the harware costs are low. If you culture your own food, than you can keep that cost down too.

This gives you are large number of fry, and theoretically a better chance at getting qulaity fish. Basically if you pick the 40-50 best out of 400 fry rather than 100, you have a better chance of producing the higher end stocks. A single Kelson or Stingray Betta sells for the price of 80 VT's or poorly formed CT's.

I have run the numbers, and commerically this seems to be the most cost effetive approach. I guess using them as feeders would be best. Alotugh I think I will feel bad every time I send out my own baby betta's to be used as feeders.

Another option is to breed something where most everty fish can be sold, like Cory's. They have been spwning in a "display" tank which is not really suited for rearing fry. Than I won't have to worry abotu culling anything.