How are my water conditions?

[communityfluvalroma]

Hello!

The tank is looking good.

I agree with everything said above. Your nitrate is way to high.



I agree. If your ph is to high, you can get more driftwood. This is an easy way to lower your ph levels.

The only thing I can suggest is getting more plants.

Thanks @PheonixKingZ!

Are my pH levels ok as they currently are? The pH and High Range pH have been very stable since day 3 when I first tested my water conditions.

More plants have been ordered.

Thank you @Retired Viking @utahfish and @JuiceBox52 for all of your advice.

 

[Jan Cavalieri]

I have 3 cycled tanks and they get nitrate readings of 40 ever so often - I just change the water but it's never seemed to hurt my fish - now today I just lost almost a full tankful of fish to ammonia so I can personally attest to what ammonia does to a fish tank - made me sick and very sad.

I'm really shocked to see that much in your tap water - and I don't know of anyway you can dilute it without buying all your water or having a reverse osmosis system installed. Do you use well water and live in an agricultural area?

Go online and search for your city water department - they are usually required to put out an annual report that lists all the stuff they pour in our water for whatever reason or sometimes they just measure it. I would also contact the city and tell them what your nitrate level is and see if they have any ideas. Like possible runoff from agricultural fields but that would affect every fish owner in town so I really doubt ALL the water in your city has nitrates that high. Something is going on - maybe you measured the water in a test tube with some residual nitrates? Cities don't generally like to poison everybody in it or even just their pets and they know a lot more about your water than we do.

Otherwise, nice aquarium. It looks cycled to me - Nitrates are what you get rid of at the end of cycling that's why it's no unusual to have some level of nitrates - but the bacteria are good for ammonia and nitrites. I would personally add a little more gravel just to make planting easier. I have a fish called "the excavator" because he would take that much gravel and mound it in a pile before you could finish your water change. I have to make it a little harder to do (there are lots of fish like this).

I would add a LOT of floating plants to allow fish a place to hide - they will use it regularly.
I would also get some wood or ceramic "caves" or "tunnels" for them to hide in.

When you design an aquarium - you want places for them to dig, places at the top of the tank for them to hide, places at the bottom of the tank for them to hide, and places at the top and large middle section for them to swim (especially if you have groups of schooling/schooling fish.

Also look for some FUN UNIQUE fish not the same old boring guppies, bettas and danios. If your GH and KH values (from your city water report) with work with fish like loaches I would HIGHLY recommend that you get some Dojo loaches and Kubotai Loaches (or similar) - they are the funnest fish to watch - they love bubblers and put one on the wall and watch them "ride" up the bubbles then dive back down to do it again. They even take turns. Brilliant fish and the Dojos are inexpensive and come in yellow and albino that may turn yellow. I also like dwarf size gourami's - they can be beautiful and aren't aggressive. Some of the non- dwarfs grow to 5-8 inches and can be pretty bossy. Pleco's are also really cool looking - look like a cory cat or catfish but with flatter heads - mine are bright yellow (if they are still both alive - I lost the female today) but they love to hide but are so cool when they come out to look at you. There are stores online or LARGE local fish shops that would carry species like this although Gourami's are pretty popular just stick to the dwarf sizes, don't let anybody talk you into the larger ones - I have 8 all a pain in the neck.

Report back on what you find from your water department and what your final aquarium looks like - now that I just lost a tankful of fish looks like I'll be shopping for some more as well unless I give it all up. It's hard to take a big loss.

 

[communityfluvalroma]

I have 3 cycled tanks and they get nitrate readings of 40 ever so often - I just change the water but it's never seemed to hurt my fish - now today I just lost almost a full tankful of fish to ammonia so I can personally attest to what ammonia does to a fish tank - made me sick and very sad.

I'm really shocked to see that much in your tap water - and I don't know of anyway you can dilute it without buying all your water or having a reverse osmosis system installed. Do you use well water and live in an agricultural area?

Go online and search for your city water department - they are usually required to put out an annual report that lists all the stuff they pour in our water for whatever reason or sometimes they just measure it. I would also contact the city and tell them what your nitrate level is and see if they have any ideas. Like possible runoff from agricultural fields but that would affect every fish owner in town so I really doubt ALL the water in your city has nitrates that high. Something is going on - maybe you measured the water in a test tube with some residual nitrates? Cities don't generally like to poison everybody in it or even just their pets and they know a lot more about your water than we do.

Otherwise, nice aquarium. It looks cycled to me - Nitrates are what you get rid of at the end of cycling that's why it's no unusual to have some level of nitrates - but the bacteria are good for ammonia and nitrites. I would personally add a little more gravel just to make planting easier. I have a fish called "the excavator" because he would take that much gravel and mound it in a pile before you could finish your water change. I have to make it a little harder to do (there are lots of fish like this).

I would add a LOT of floating plants to allow fish a place to hide - they will use it regularly.
I would also get some wood or ceramic "caves" or "tunnels" for them to hide in.

When you design an aquarium - you want places for them to dig, places at the top of the tank for them to hide, places at the bottom of the tank for them to hide, and places at the top and large middle section for them to swim (especially if you have groups of schooling/schooling fish.

Also look for some FUN UNIQUE fish not the same old boring guppies, bettas and danios. If your GH and KH values (from your city water report) with work with fish like loaches I would HIGHLY recommend that you get some Dojo loaches and Kubotai Loaches (or similar) - they are the funnest fish to watch - they love bubblers and put one on the wall and watch them "ride" up the bubbles then dive back down to do it again. They even take turns. Brilliant fish and the Dojos are inexpensive and come in yellow and albino that may turn yellow. I also like dwarf size gourami's - they can be beautiful and aren't aggressive. Some of the non- dwarfs grow to 5-8 inches and can be pretty bossy. Pleco's are also really cool looking - look like a cory cat or catfish but with flatter heads - mine are bright yellow (if they are still both alive - I lost the female today) but they love to hide but are so cool when they come out to look at you. There are stores online or LARGE local fish shops that would carry species like this although Gourami's are pretty popular just stick to the dwarf sizes, don't let anybody talk you into the larger ones - I have 8 all a pain in the neck.

Report back on what you find from your water department and what your final aquarium looks like - now that I just lost a tankful of fish looks like I'll be shopping for some more as well unless I give it all up. It's hard to take a big loss.

Firstly, I’m really sorry to hear about the loss of fish. One thing that I’ve learned on this forum is that irrelevant of the amount of knowledge/experience, these things happen, so use it as motivation to bounce back and do better.

Here is a detailed report on my tap water:

That’s all great advice, thank you! I have two water sprite plants and two anacharis plants in the tank, they are growing well at the moment. I have also ordered another bunch of each this evening and will use those as floating plants.

I am planning on adding more rock/wood to the tank for hiding places.

What fish would you recommend based on the detailed results of my tap water?

 

[Byron]

This thread is certainly jumping around.

First thing to sort out is your water parameters. The GH is the most important, and will determine which fish are or are not suited to your water. You should be able to find this on your water authority's website. We need the nnumber and their unit of measure. While you are there, see if you can find their KH (carbonate hardness, also called Alkalinity). It is useful to know but not as important as the GH (general or total hardness). The pH is determined by the GH and KH, plus dissolved CO2. You give 7.6 (normal test) and 8 (high test). Was this of the tap water fresh, or the tank water? Once you/we know the actual pH of the source (tap) water, we will know which test to use (as you can see, they differ).

Second issue, nitrates. When these occur in the source water, the only way to reduce them is external to the aquarium. Plants will not take up anywhere close to an appreciable level of nitrate. They use ammonia/ammonium as their preferred source of nitrogen, and studies have shown that they only take up nitrate when ammonia/ammonium is not adequate (assuming light and everything else is to drive photosynthesis).

Was the nitrate level with your test kit? Or from the water authority site? There are two ways of measuring nitrate, N03-N and NO3. The hobby uses NO3 but many water authorities/governments may use NO3-N which is a lower number. [If I've got this right way round] If this 40 ppm was for example the API nitrate test, then it is the hobby (higher) number. But if it is the water authority's measurement, it might be the lower NO3-N and need multiplying by 4.42 to get the NO3 equivalent.

EDIT. You posted water data while I was asking for it...some of this will now be answered.

 

[communityfluvalroma]

This thread is certainly jumping around.

First thing to sort out is your water parameters. The GH is the most important, and will determine which fish are or are not suited to your water. You should be able to find this on your water authority's website. We need the nnumber and their unit of measure. While you are there, see if you can find their KH (carbonate hardness, also called Alkalinity). It is useful to know but not as important as the GH (general or total hardness). The pH is determined by the GH and KH, plus dissolved CO2. You give 7.6 (normal test) and 8 (high test). Was this of the tap water fresh, or the tank water? Once you/we know the actual pH of the source (tap) water, we will know which test to use (as you can see, they differ).

Second issue, nitrates. When these occur in the source water, the only way to reduce them is external to the aquarium. Plants will not take up anywhere close to an appreciable level of nitrate. They use ammonia/ammonium as their preferred source of nitrogen, and studies have shown that they only take up nitrate when ammonia/ammonium is not adequate (assuming light and everything else is to drive photosynthesis).

Was the nitrate level with your test kit? Or from the water authority site? There are two ways of measuring nitrate, N03-N and NO3. The hobby uses NO3 but many water authorities/governments may use NO3-N which is a lower number. [If I've got this right way round] If this 40 ppm was for example the API nitrate test, then it is the hobby (higher) number. But if it is the water authority's measurement, it might be the lower NO3-N and need multiplying by 4.42 to get the NO3 equivalent.

EDIT. You posted water data while I was asking for it...some of this will now be answered.

It sure is, I’m a new member to the forum. So I’m unsure whether I should create a separate thread for topics such as stocking my tank or just continue using a current thread.

The pH readings were of my tank water. I haven’t yet tested the pH levels in my tap water. I will do so and record the readings here tomorrow.

The Nitrate levels (for both tap water and tank water) were recorded using my API test kit.

 

[Byron]

It sure is, I’m a new member to the forum. So I’m unsure whether I should create a separate thread for topics such as stocking my tank or just continue using a current thread.

The pH readings were of my tank water. I haven’t yet tested the pH levels in my tap water. I will do so and record the readings here tomorrow.

The Nitrate levels (for both tap water and tank water) were recorded using my API test kit.

OK, the pH being tank water is likely accurate and the tap water should be much the same, unless it was freshly drawn tap water in the tank and tested right away. When testing tap water, you need to ensure the dissolved CO2 is out-gassed, or this can affect the result. Let a glass of tap water sit 24 hours, then test pH. This delay is not needed with tank water as the CO2 will have sorted out throough the agitation and 24-hours.

On the nitrate, this is a case where you should look into dealing with the nitrate before the fresh water is added to the tank. We have a few members here who have gone down this road, @seangee I think, and certainly @AbbeysDad has...they will see this and explain it better than I could ever begin to.

GH is 18 dGH (equivalent is 322 ppm). This is fairly hard water. If you stay with this, once the nitrate issue is resolved, your fish options include livebearers, some of the rainbowfishes, rift lake cichlids. Given the nitrate, one optionis to use part RO water to reduce nitrate, and that would also reduce GH proportionally. Something to think about once you get advised on the best methods to deal with the nitrate.

 

[PheonixKingZ]

I agree with @Byron.

 

[communityfluvalroma]

OK, the pH being tank water is likely accurate and the tap water should be much the same, unless it was freshly drawn tap water in the tank and tested right away. When testing tap water, you need to ensure the dissolved CO2 is out-gassed, or this can affect the result. Let a glass of tap water sit 24 hours, then test pH. This delay is not needed with tank water as the CO2 will have sorted out throough the agitation and 24-hours.

On the nitrate, this is a case where you should look into dealing with the nitrate before the fresh water is added to the tank. We have a few members here who have gone down this road, @seangee I think, and certainly @AbbeysDad has...they will see this and explain it better than I could ever begin to.

GH is 18 dGH (equivalent is 322 ppm). This is fairly hard water. If you stay with this, once the nitrate issue is resolved, your fish options include livebearers, some of the rainbowfishes, rift lake cichlids. Given the nitrate, one optionis to use part RO water to reduce nitrate, and that would also reduce GH proportionally. Something to think about once you get advised on the best methods to deal with the nitrate.

Thanks a lot for the advice. You’ve helped me no end with understanding the science and what I can and can’t do based on my water conditions.

I will wait to hear from @seangee and @AbbeysDad regarding the Nitrate.

 

[seangee]

If you want to keep hard water fish you can reduce the nitrates by using an ion exchange resin. I managed this using the Pozzani brand filter for a while. I found it a bit tedious and expensive. Neither was a massive big deal, but the down side was that while it cleared all the nitrate it still left me with rock hard water, and I much prefer soft water fish. My water is quite similar to yours. I did start mixing RO with tap water to reduce the hardness but that meant I still had to filter the tap water for nitrates, and carrying 100 litres of water from the fish shop every week was no fun. So in the end I just bought an RO unit and that's what I use in the tanks now. 2 of the tanks get straight RO and nothing else, the third has shrimps so I do add mineral salts to that one.

 

[AbbeysDad]

I sometimes feel like a broken record on this subject, so I think I'll copy this post when finished to re-use.
It's not uncommon (sadly) these days to have high nitrates in source water, especially in agricultural areas. I have high nitrates in my well water I believe due to a 95 acre farmers field across the road that gets ample amount of manure and (I believe) some chemical fertilizer.
My home system does not generate enough pressure for an RO (reverse osmosis) system without adding a pump. Good RO systems aren't cheap and although they'll remove nitrates, you have to add minerals at additional cost.
I first invested in the now discontinued API Tap Water Filter (ION exchange resins). However, the use life of the cartridge for my water was such that it just wasn't cost effective. In a moment of inspiration, I wondered if I reclaimed a filter cartridge, and refilled it with API Nitra-Zorb, could I use it to pre-filter water for water changes. I put the question the API (Mars) Tech Support and they said that they did not know as the product had not been tested in that way. But they also pointed out that the resin use life is often compromised by detritus (Ah...but that would not exist when filtering clean well water!) (API Nitra-Zorb is an ION exchange resin that adsorbs nitrates. The beauty is that it is rechargeable with ordinary (non iodized) salt water, so it can be reclaimed many times. It is sold in pouches, intended to be used in filters.) I cut open several pouches to fill my Tap Water Filter with resin. It works awesome and I have filtered well over 8000 gallons and still going strong! Sadly the Tap Water Filter is no longer available and I'll admit that trickling water through a filter to remove nitrates is a bit of a pain. But for me, it's the most economical way to solve the problem.
I haven't used the Pozzani filter that @seangee used, but there are also other inline nitrate filters - but to my knowledge, none of these are rechargeable which make there cost in replacing cartridges high.
I think you'd be best served by taking every measure to keep tank generated nitrates low. You may need a filter to contain them, but you might get two or four pouches of API Nitra-Zorb so you have two in use and two recharging all the time. Ensure that they are put in the filter last after fine filter media so they see the cleanest water. With your water, you'll want to find the right amount of water for partial water changes to maintain an appropriate nitrate level in your tank.
Note: As the resin becomes less effective due to a detritus detritus coating it might be reclaimed using a 50/50 bleach/water treatment (like Sechem's Purigen) BUT I HAVE NOT TESTED THIS.
Good luck!

 

[communityfluvalroma]

Thank you for the advice.

The Nitrate seems to be under control. I tested the water on Sunday (3rd May) and the Nitrate read 20 ppm. I've tested the water again just now and my Nitrate reading is 10 ppm. I will continue testing for a further week daily to ensure it doesn't spike.

I've added a few more plants and seen some really good growth in my anacharis and water sprite. I'm confident that these factors are contributing to reducing my Nitrate levels.

I wanted to pick your brains further regarding RO water. For arguments sake, if I wanted to reduce the GH by 50%, would it be as simple as adding 50% RO water and 50% treated tap water?

 

[seangee]

wanted to pick your brains further regarding RO water. For arguments sake, if I wanted to reduce the GH by 50%, would it be as simple as adding 50% RO water and 50% treated tap water?

Yes.
Your KH will also reduce by 50% so over time your pH may drop a bit. This is not an issue.

 

[communityfluvalroma]

Todays water parameters were:

pH: 7.6
High Range pH: 8.0
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0.25
Nitrate: 10

Below is a comparable photo. The top photo was taken just now and the bottom photo was taken 26th April.

Would you agree that the tank is now cycled?

If so, I'd really appreciate some advice on my first fish. My water hardness is 18dh/320ppm. Is it wise to get algae eaters initially? Or will there not be enough algae for them to feed on? Guppies are high on the list too for obvious reasons.

Based on your recommendation, how many fish should I look to add?

 

[seangee]

Given the size of the tank and plant growth you should be fine adding 6 guppies. Change the water first to get nitrites down to 0 and keep checking daily. If everything is still OK after a week or 2 you can add more - although unless you are only adding male guppies you won't need to add more guppies

What algae eaters do you have in mind? And is their primary purpose to eat algae or because you like them? Your water is too hard for otos and chances are they would starve in such a new setup. A bristlenose would cope with your water and will eat algae wafers, but if your reason for wanting them is to keep your tank clean they aren't especially good at that. If you do get one make sure its very small. They are notoriously messy in terms of bio waste - and once he grows don't expect your light and dark substrate to stay separate .

 

[communityfluvalroma]

6 Guppies it is! I will do, I will do a water change the morning of buying the fish.

I really like the look of the Blue Phantom Pleco and Starlight Pleco, but if I’ve researched correctly, my water is too hard for them both. My rationale for an algae eater is two fold, I want something that looks great but also helps with the biology of the tank.

I will get the guppies this weekend and the algae eater in a couple of months, once the tank is better established.

Haha! So I’ve heard.