Honey Gouramis -What Is Missing?

[SouthernCross]

Hi everyone.
 
I have a lovely pair of honey gouramis (named Honey and Sugar), had them about six months now.
 
My question is - they display, they dance (where they look like they almost wrap), they are always interacting and clearly like each other! My male is always in his breeding colours and she nearly always shows the horizontal stripe. But I never get a good nest or eggs though.

I will admit, he does seem a bit crap at building a decent one. Whenever I look in, there's usually just a blob in the corner or all stretched out in a line. Only once or twice have I thought it was halfway decent compared to what I've seen on youtube (i.e. multilayered and thick, big).
 
I've got my filtration as low as possible and the outlet pointed down away from the surface to minimise agitation as much as possible. I did have ambulia in there as a floating plant which they liked, but it kept shedding on me and makign a horrible mess. I've since introduced some azolla and duckweed (which hopefully I won't regret!) to see if that helps him.
 
They are in a 40 litre. Tankmates are only some little tetras and some cories that don't go near the nests he does make anyway. I feed them NLS flake, frozen bloodworms and they also like the shrimp pellets i put in for the cories. 
 
Is there anything else I could be doing to help these guys along??
 
Here's a pic of them I took awhile ago. The ram is no longer in the tank, in case anyone was wondering,
 

 

[DreamertK]

How about feeding live foods such as worms? He does look fantastic, but the female doesn't seem too plump from the picture.
 
More floating plants would help him out a lot. You can float anubais and gourami won't eat them. If not, I've heard people had some success with floating cups on the surface to contain the bubbles. There's probably still too much surface agitation. Could also switch to a bubbler and gravel filter.

 

[SouthernCross]

There isn't really any surface agitation

  its very still.
 
I dont know where I would get live worms small enough for them here? What kinds are best?
 
I will let this duckweed reproduce and see how he goes with it, if still not much nesting I will try a cup.
 
That photo is a bit old, its not really current but looking in the tank I think the female looks ok. As I said, she likes to display too, hints of yellow and blue in her fins when she's extra happy...

 

[PrairieSunflower]

My first male was awesome at the entire thing but the humidity wasn't good enough at the surface and I have assassin snails that keep my egg population in check.... but my new male.... entirely hopeless and backwards!  He builds the worst tiny nests... then the mate and he runs about frantic trying to catch all the falling eggs and is terrible at getting them to his wimpy little nest... then they are lost and he finally builds a huge nest way too late!  LOL

 

[SouthernCross]

Bit of an update, not sure but it looks like they're finally getting somewhere. She has darkened up in colour and her stripe is much more vibrant than usual. He had a pretty good nest built yesterday, although lots of it dissipated overnight (I think my little cories on the surface dives don't help either) but he's working on it again today. Lots of displaying going on - Oh and as I was sitting here typing this I just witnessed a wrap under his nest! I am really not sure whether any eggs were released though - should I be able to see them or not?
 
The tank is really due for a water change - but I guess I shouldnt disturb them? Or would blast of fresh cooler water encourage them even more? It will mean he will have to start his nest over agin though...

After the wrap he was chasing her away too - is that normal?

Ahhhh they just did it again and this time I definitely saw eggs falling!
 
My little tetras got some of them but he definitely snatched up a few in his mouth and relocated them up to the nest! How exciting!!! The nest really isn't very good though so I'm a bit nervous

 

[SouthernCross]

Well....his bubble nest sucks. There seems to be more eggs than there is bubbles! I can definitely see them. He is still hovering around them so he may do his best to look after them. Whether they survive overnight will remain to be seen. Will keep you all posted!

 

[SouthernCross]

This is what we have!

Worst bubble nest in the world? LOL!

 

[SouthernCross]

If anyone's reading, the eggs were all gone in the morning. No more since, but he is practicing building lots of bubble nests...Maybe it's time I put a styrofoam cup in there?

 

[DreamertK]

Do you happen to have any snails/assassins?

 

[hobby5]

Congrats! Its a fantastic sight, isn't it? All normal what you described. They don't build the best nests. Do you want to raise offspring? Then you should transfer the nest to an extra tank. If not, leave him alone. With the other fish in there, there is no chance of survival anyway.

 

[SouthernCross]

OMG I Have FRY!!!!
 
After a big couple of work days and not looking at my tank or turning the lights on, I came in and switched on the light only to see dozens of little tadpoles get startled and scatter everywhere! I feel so terrible cos in all the commotion the other fish came looking for food and then found a lot of my fry
 
Dad went bonkers chasing other fish away (including the female) and after all has settled down I can still spot a few. They are SO TINY!!! They are just clinging to the surface plants at this stage. He is still protecting the area they are in.
 
 
 

Congrats! Its a fantastic sight, isn't it?

All normal what you described. They don't build the best nests. Do you want to raise offspring? Then you should transfer the nest to an extra tank. If not, leave him alone. With the other fish in there, there is no chance of survival anyway.

 
I don't know what to do now... I wouldnt mind trying to save a few (you know, just to see if I can) and maybe next time they spawn catch the fry a lot earlier and move them to safety.
 
As for these fry - should I leave them where they are or should I move them to a container and change water every day? I don't have a spare tank right now.
 
If I were to save the fry in future, would a little ten litre tank or something do until they are big enough to go back in with the others and not be eaten? Does it need to be filtered? Should dad stay with them or are they fine on their own?
 
 
I'm just so damn excited and proud they finally made it happen!

 Feeling a little guilty about causing so many to get eaten just then. When the lights are off the tetras stay towards the bottome of the tank and I honestly didn't think they knew the fry were there til I turned the light on.
 
 

Do you happen to have any snails/assassins?

There's a few teeny pond snails that hitched in on my plants but thats all.

 

[SouthernCross]

The other thing I was going to ask is should I move the eggs before they hatch or until they are free swimming?

 

[PrairieSunflower]

I have been considering moving mine next time.... cupping them and the male in a large breeding net along with a floating plant.... no idea if that would work but I plan to try it one of these days (will also keep my assassins out long enough to save the eggs).

 

[SouthernCross]

He's being such a good dad... Keeps building more nests and picking them all up and moving them and keeping them in a group together. I don't know if I should put the fry in a separate container or not?!?

 

[DreamertK]

Its near impossible to get fry to stay in the net, they're so small that they slip right through it. I would suggest moving them as eggs. You could also just put the parents in the separate container and then move both of them out.