High nitrite

[Stevetheadi]

Hi

The water was perfectly fine in my established 64L tank until I added more substrate.

Covering the old substrate has, I think, caused the nitrite (as measured by an API test kit) to spike. Today it is 4.0.

Ammonia is zero, PH is 8.5, nitrates are high (that's how it comes out of the tap) and the water is very hard.

It has been like this for about ten days despite daily 40% water changes and adding extra Seachem Prime. I have also been using AquaCare Bioboost which is used to accelerate cycling in a new tank.

I have stopped feeding the fish (six Rasboras and a couple of Corys). The fish seem fine, surprisingly.

Is there anything else I can do?

 

[Naughts]

Yes, adding aquarium salt will protect the fish. I would use this rather than extra seachem prime. IIRC it does so by inhibiting the nitrites absorption into the bloodstream. A small amount is sufficient.

Any water changes should include salt (so if you originally used a tablespoon for the whole tank, then changed half the water, use half a tbsp in the replacement water). Keep checking nitrite and ammonia levels daily until you’re sure things have resolved, then stop replacing salt.

 

[Essjay]

The second part of this link goes into detail about using salt for nitrite

Rescuing A Fish In Cycle Gone Wild - Part Il

Part II SO YOU STILL WANT TO KEEP CYCLING WITH FISH? If you are determined to ignore the above advice in Part I and still think you want to proceed with a fish in cycle, then you need to be aware of the information presented below. SOME IMPORTANT FACTS ABOUT AMMONIA Ammonia in water exists...

www.fishforums.net

 

[Stevetheadi]

Yes, adding aquarium salt will protect the fish. I would use this rather than extra seachem prime. IIRC it does so by inhibiting the nitrites absorption into the bloodstream. A small amount is sufficient.

Any water changes should include salt (so if you originally used a tablespoon for the whole tank, then changed half the water, use half a tbsp in the replacement water). Keep checking nitrite and ammonia levels daily until you’re sure things have resolved, then stop replacing salt.

Thank you.

I'll try that.

 

[Stevetheadi]

The second part of this link goes into detail about using salt for nitrite

Rescuing A Fish In Cycle Gone Wild - Part Il

Part II SO YOU STILL WANT TO KEEP CYCLING WITH FISH? If you are determined to ignore the above advice in Part I and still think you want to proceed with a fish in cycle, then you need to be aware of the information presented below. SOME IMPORTANT FACTS ABOUT AMMONIA Ammonia in water exists...

www.fishforums.net

May I just check that I've correctly calculated the amount of salt to use?

The tank has 55 litres of water in it. The N02 reading is 4.0. 55*4 = 2200mg. Multiply that by 1.5 = 3300mg or 3.3g.

The instructions that came with the aquarium salt say 1 rounded tablespoon for every 20 litres. So about 3 tablespoons of salt.

Which is a lot more than 3.3g.

 

[Essjay]

The aquarium salt instructions are not for mitigating the effect of nitrite; salt can also be used as a disease treatment but that's not what you need it for. Salt is not good for fresh water fish but they can tolerate it for short periods during treatment for illness and for helping with nitrite in the water.

That calculation is correct for use with nitrite; use 3.3 g.

 

[Stevetheadi]

The aquarium salt instructions are not for mitigating the effect of nitrite; salt can also be used as a disease treatment but that's not what you need it for. Salt is not good for fresh water fish but they can tolerate it for short periods during treatment for illness and for helping with nitrite in the water.

That calculation is correct for use with nitrite; use 3.3 g.

Thank you.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

There is a reason not to change water for either ammonia or nitrite if possible. The reasons is simple, the problem is hat one does not have an adequate amount of the needed microorganisms. They multiply in response to there being more ammonia or nitrite than the exsiting one need.

Adding something like SeaChem dechlor causes the chemistry involved to change and this slows the reproductive rate. So what they do is to lower the toxicity some but this also slows how soon the problem gets solved by the the bateria reproducing

Because chloride blocks nitrite from entering the fish it protect them from nitrite. Because it takes 24-48 hours for nitrite inside a fish to work its way out, the fish will continue to be exposed to nitrite until the bacteria multiply to handle it. The use of the salt, with its chloride component, blocks the nitrite from entering the fish which means the bacteria will reproduce faster.

Also, with ammonia how toxic it might be depends on the pH and temp. of the water. So one tank can have 2 ppm of total ammonia and the fish can handle that for the short term fine, And another tank can have only .50 ppm of ammonia and it is harming or even killing fish. The full explanation of this is in the same cycling article mentioned above.

Also, using an ammonia detoxifier which is often in many dechlors will slow a cycle. What the detoxifiers generally do is to convert the ammonia (NH3) into ammonium (INH4). Ammonium is less toxixc by far than ammonia. But the bacteria and Archaea which use ammonia cannot process ammonium as efficiently as they can do with ammonia. And this will slow a cycle.

So when doing a fishless cycle it is better to use a dechlor which does not contain an ammonia detoxifier. Ideally all one needs is sodium thiosulfate.

One of the primary uses of sodium thiosulfate in the maritime industry is for water treatment. Specifically, it is used as a dechlorinating agent to remove excess chlorine from water that has been treated with chlorine as a disinfectant.

This would be fine for use with fishless cycling, But when we have an ammonia issue in a tank with fish, then an ammonia detoxifier can protect them. Since a lot of water supply systems use chloramine rather than chlorine, when the chlroramine is broken up into chlorine and ammonia, the ammonia can be a problem when fish are present. So the ammonia detoxifier component converts if to ammonium. The bacteria can use this but not as effectively as they can use up ammonia. However, in a cyced tank the bacteria will work well enough on the ammonium to protect fish.

 

[Stevetheadi]

There is a reason not to change water for either ammonia or nitrite if possible. The reasons is simple, the problem is hat one does not have an adequate amount of the needed microorganisms. They multiply in response to there being more ammonia or nitrite than the exsiting one need.

Adding something like SeaChem dechlor causes the chemistry involved to change and this slows the reproductive rate. So what they do is to lower the toxicity some but this also slows how soon the problem gets solved by the the bateria reproducing

Because chloride blocks nitrite from entering the fish it protect them from nitrite. Because it takes 24-48 hours for nitrite inside a fish to work its way out, the fish will continue to be exposed to nitrite until the bacteria multiply to handle it. The use of the salt, with its chloride component, blocks the nitrite from entering the fish which means the bacteria will reproduce faster.

Also, with ammonia how toxic it might be depends on the pH and temp. of the water. So one tank can have 2 ppm of total ammonia and the fish can handle that for the short term fine, And another tank can have only .50 ppm of ammonia and it is harming or even killing fish. The full explanation of this is in the same cycling article mentioned above.

Also, using an ammonia detoxifier which is often in many dechlors will slow a cycle. What the detoxifiers generally do is to convert the ammonia (NH3) into ammonium (INH4). Ammonium is less toxixc by far than ammonia. But the bacteria and Archaea which use ammonia cannot process ammonium as efficiently as they can do with ammonia. And this will slow a cycle.

So when doing a fishless cycle it is better to use a dechlor which does not contain an ammonia detoxifier. Ideally all one needs is sodium thiosulfate.

This would be fine for use with fishless cycling, But when we have an ammonia issue in a tank with fish, then an ammonia detoxifier can protect them. Since a lot of water supply systems use chloramine rather than chlorine, when the chlroramine is broken up into chlorine and ammonia, the ammonia can be a problem when fish are present. So the ammonia detoxifier component converts if to ammonium. The bacteria can use this but not as effectively as they can use up ammonia. However, in a cyced tank the bacteria will work well enough on the ammonium to protect fish.

Thank you for the detailed reply.
You are suggesting that I don't change the water daily while I'm waiting for the bacteria population to grow?
Are the bacteria growing slowly because there is no ammonia in the tank?

 

[TwoTankAmin]

Yes that is what is happening. The cycle is driven by ammonia. And ammonia cannot be blocked from entering a fish the way nitrite can.

There is also a difference in how to deal with these two toxins depending on whether on is doing a fishless cycle or one has a tank with fish in it.

There are 3 good articles here on all of this you can find here: https://www.fishforums.net/threads/cycle-your-tank-a-complete-guide-for-beginners.475055/