High Mortality Tank

[Fox46]

When cleaning the filters, I rinse out the sponges and the pads in some of the old tank water before I start hoovering. The media I just shake about and scrub any algae off the opening at the top. I'm careful not to over clean, or at least I think I am. The readings were taken the day after I'd done the weekly water change, and though the nitrate test was a little more golden than the 0 on the API chart, it was certainly nowhere near the 0.5 block. I've got three filters running in that tank, one is a spare for emergencies and the other is a spray-bar filter for the 25l hospital tank when needed. I'd be surprised if all three crashed at once. The other fish in that tank are ok, (4 Pearl Gouramis, 1 Black Widow tetra and the remaining Rainbowfish) so I figured the problem didn't lie there. Maybe I should start cleaning each of the 2 larger filters on different rotas, just in case.

 

[Fox46]

I've done two weeks treatment with eSHe.ndx (for worms), and was planning to continue for a further two weeks before starting on eSHEgdx for gill fluke etc. I noticed, around the time I started this thread that one of the Platys had a white patch over the top of her nose but it was new and I thought it might be an injury. However it's not improved and now this morning I notice another Platy has something similar, but around her eye and near her gill. It doesn't look like Ick to me, but I'm wondering now about fungus or hole in the head. In any event, I'm not sure now whether I should continue the current treatment, or whether I should be doing something else altogether. Or even whether I should leave a gap between treatments. I'm sorry to be a pain but this is all related to my worries about this particular tank and I'm getting despondent now.

PS it doesn't look cotton woolly - it looks slightly irridescent.

 

[Colin_T]

need clear pictures but I would say it's excess mucous. add some salt to the tank. you can use salt and dewormer at the same time.

SALT
You can add rock salt (often sold as aquarium salt), swimming pool salt, or any non iodised salt (sodium chloride) to the aquarium at the dose rate of 1 heaped tablespoon per 20 litres (5 gallons) of water. If there is no improvement after 48 hours you can double that dose rate so there is 2 heaped tablespoons of salt per 20 litres.

Keep the salt level like this for at least 2 weeks but no longer than 4 weeks otherwise kidney damage can occur. Kidney damage is more likely to occur in fish from soft water (tetras, Corydoras, angelfish, Bettas & gouramis, loaches) that are exposed to high levels of salt for an extended period of time, and is not an issue with livebearers, rainbowfish or other salt tolerant species.

The salt will not affect the beneficial filter bacteria, fish, plants, shrimp or snails.

After you use salt and the fish have recovered, you do a 10% water change each day for a week using only fresh water that has been dechlorinated. Then do a 20% water change each day for a week. Then you can do bigger water changes after that. This dilutes the salt out of the tank slowly so it doesn't harm the fish.

If you do water changes while using salt, you need to treat the new water with salt before adding it to the tank. This will keep the salt level stable in the tank and minimise stress on the fish.

When you first add salt, add the salt to a small bucket of tank water and dissolve the salt. Then slowly pour the salt water into the tank near the filter outlet. Add the salt over a couple of minutes.

 

[Fox46]

need clear pictures but I would say it's excess mucous. add some salt to the tank. you can use salt and dewormer at the same time.

SALT
You can add rock salt (often sold as aquarium salt), swimming pool salt, or any non iodised salt (sodium chloride) to the aquarium at the dose rate of 1 heaped tablespoon per 20 litres (5 gallons) of water. If there is no improvement after 48 hours you can double that dose rate so there is 2 heaped tablespoons of salt per 20 litres.

Keep the salt level like this for at least 2 weeks but no longer than 4 weeks otherwise kidney damage can occur. Kidney damage is more likely to occur in fish from soft water (tetras, Corydoras, angelfish, Bettas & gouramis, loaches) that are exposed to high levels of salt for an extended period of time, and is not an issue with livebearers, rainbowfish or other salt tolerant species.

The salt will not affect the beneficial filter bacteria, fish, plants, shrimp or snails.

After you use salt and the fish have recovered, you do a 10% water change each day for a week using only fresh water that has been dechlorinated. Then do a 20% water change each day for a week. Then you can do bigger water changes after that. This dilutes the salt out of the tank slowly so it doesn't harm the fish.

If you do water changes while using salt, you need to treat the new water with salt before adding it to the tank. This will keep the salt level stable in the tank and minimise stress on the fish.

When you first add salt, add the salt to a small bucket of tank water and dissolve the salt. Then slowly pour the salt water into the tank near the filter outlet. Add the salt over a couple of minutes.

Do you think I should suspend all other treatments (ndx and gdx for the 2-4 week period, and maybe do a big water change before adding the salt to rid any trace of the ndx I've already used (last treatment a week ago).

 

[Colin_T]

Don't stop the worm treatment otherwise you risk eggs hatching and reinfecting everything. Just keep doing the current worm treatment and add salt at the same time.

 

[Fox46]

Things are not going too well here. I finished the ndx treatment, and started the aquarium salts one week ago. The silvery patches on two of the Platy have not improved, and this morning one of them died. So to recap, out of 9 Platy bought in February, I now only have 3, one of which has a similar silvery patch around his eye and gills. (The other 5 died of no discernible causes displaying no other symptoms other than hiding away until feeding time.) I had 3 young fish born from this group, but I found one of them dead this morning, after she'd spent a couple of days of hiding on top of the filter. I think there is another young one heading down the same path.
After retrieving the body of the adult, I was better able to see it in profile, and although you can't see the silver patch in this photo, you can see the indentation across the top of the head where it is. Am now considering hole-in-the-head, but I read this was pitted black areas, not silvery. I've just done the first water change after starting the aquarium salt treatment and have topped up as instructed. I don't think the deaths are anything to do with the aquarium salts because to be honest, the remaining fish in the tank (4 Pearl Gouramis, 1 Black Widow Tetra and 1 Dwarf Rainbow fish have been if anything more lively and visible.
I've got the gdx treatment but am reluctant to start it unless wiser counsel thinks that silvery patches and erosions are indicators for skin flukes, gill flukes and tapeworm which this is supposedly formulated to treat. If I were to start it, can it run concurrently with the aquarium salts treatment?

 

[Sanityassassin]

A lot of the common community fish you get nowadays aren't particularly long lived. On a lot of care sheets for such fish you might get a lifespan of 3-5 years for example. Take into account that the fish you buy from the store could already be at least 12 months old, then if you've had the fish for a couple of years, and they start mysteriously dying, it may not necessarily be down to anything bad that you're doing. They've just reached the end of their relatively short lives.

As an example, you got your rainbow fish in Oct 2020. If they were, say, 12 months old when you bought them, then they'd be almost 4 years old now! That puts them firmly in "the bracket", as rainbow fish also fall into this 3-5 year range.

They start dying off, the hobbyist thinks they're doing something wrong, and so starts blindly doing all sorts of stuff regarding raising temps, adding salt and/or meds. If they don't know exactly what they're doing, which is commonly the case, hence so many questions regarding medications on forums, then it can be devastating for the whole tank!

The best thing any hobbyist can do to prolong the life of their fish is go keep the water clean, and feed minimally. I suspect that poor water quality and overfeeding lead to more deaths than anything else.

 

[Fox46]

A lot of the common community fish you get nowadays aren't particularly long lived. On a lot of care sheets for such fish you might get a lifespan of 3-5 years for example. Take into account that the fish you buy from the store could already be at least 12 months old, then if you've had the fish for a couple of years, and they start mysteriously dying, it may not necessarily be down to anything bad that you're doing. They've just reached the end of their relatively short lives.

As an example, you got your rainbow fish in Oct 2020. If they were, say, 12 months old when you bought them, then they'd be almost 4 years old now! That puts them firmly in "the bracket", as rainbow fish also fall into this 3-5 year range.

They start dying off, the hobbyist thinks they're doing something wrong, and so starts blindly doing all sorts of stuff regarding raising temps, adding salt and/or meds. If they don't know exactly what they're doing, which is commonly the case, hence so many questions regarding medications on forums, then it can be devastating for the whole tank!

The best thing any hobbyist can do to prolong the life of their fish is go keep the water clean, and feed minimally. I suspect that poor water quality and overfeeding lead to more deaths than anything else.

Thanks for that. These Platy were quite tiny when I bought them 5 months back and have grown substantially, so although I think that's a sensible proposition, I'm not sure that's the case so far as they are concerned. The rainbow fish - yes - I didn't notice the steady growth in them, though the first batch did start dying about 14 months after purchase, with another peak about 2 years later. I still have just the one left, and he's going strong, the liveliest in the tank.
The fish in my other non-worrisome tank were, with the exception of 3 male Platys, all bought via mail order at the onset of Covid in early 2020. As I mentioned, there's only been one health death and 2 accidental in that tank. They're all going strong, never any problems, and the 3 male Platy in here were bought from a different LFS. Which is kind of leading me to a possibility that the poorly batch of Platy may be genetically compromised in some way. Whatever, I certainly don't feel inclined to go back to my usual LFS (not Pets at Home by the way but a well known franchise) again. Thank you for replying.

 

[Fishies4Ever]

I’ve been reading through the posts. It is very odd that all the fish have been dying. I don’t believe it would be because they live shorter lives now it seems like it would be some kind of disease, but I am not sue what. I did look up some things just to see what I could find, could the fish be getting injured on some part of the tank and then getting an infection and dying? Is there anything sharp in the aquarium? If the nitrates weren’t so low I would say it would be because of that, because nitrates slowly kill fish and that would be an easy fix. My best guess for the platys is worms or other parasites as said earlier, they are more common in live bearers than in other fish so like your rainbow fish. Have you ever seen the platys have super long white poop? Another thing could be dropsy. Are the dishes scales pine coning or sticking out? Are their eyes bulging? Other than that I’m not sure what it could be. I wish you the best of luck and hope you are able to solve the problem and have a more fun fish experience!

 

[Fox46]

I’ve been reading through the posts. It is very odd that all the fish have been dying. I don’t believe it would be because they live shorter lives now it seems like it would be some kind of disease, but I am not sue what. I did look up some things just to see what I could find, could the fish be getting injured on some part of the tank and then getting an infection and dying? Is there anything sharp in the aquarium? If the nitrates weren’t so low I would say it would be because of that, because nitrates slowly kill fish and that would be an easy fix. My best guess for the platys is worms or other parasites as said earlier, they are more common in live bearers than in other fish so like your rainbow fish. Have you ever seen the platys have super long white poop? Another thing could be dropsy. Are the dishes scales pine coning or sticking out? Are their eyes bulging? Other than that I’m not sure what it could be. I wish you the best of luck and hope you are able to solve the problem and have a more fun fish experience!

Thanks. I must confess I'm getting pretty despondent now. Every time I lose a fish I test the parameters and they're ok. I've checked for sharp edges but can't see anything, and so many fish have died umarked in any way I don't think it can be that. The Platys do have a tendency to trail poop but not excessively so and not all the time, and I've done the ndx treatment. I don't see pine-coning until the very end and then not in all cases. And yet still I have this group of survivors in this problem tank, 4 Pearl Gourami's all 3.5 yrs old, one Rainbow 2.5 years old at least, and a Black Widow Tetra 3.5 years old. So whatever is wrong - it's not wrong for all fish, just Rainbows, Platys, and Guppies.

 

[Fishies4Ever]

Thanks. I must confess I'm getting pretty despondent now. Every time I lose a fish I test the parameters and they're ok. I've checked for sharp edges but can't see anything, and so many fish have died umarked in any way I don't think it can be that. The Platys do have a tendency to trail poop but not excessively so and not all the time, and I've done the ndx treatment. I don't see pine-coning until the very end and then not in all cases. And yet still I have this group of survivors in this problem tank, 4 Pearl Gourami's all 3.5 yrs old, one Rainbow 2.5 years old at least, and a Black Widow Tetra 3.5 years old. So whatever is wrong - it's not wrong for all fish, just Rainbows, Platys, and Guppies.

Very unfortunate. What are all the fish in the tank with the high mortality? You could just keep trying and see if some of the fish get better and survive. Do you know what the gH and ph of your tank are, because that could be possibly harming the fish on the long term. I would just see what happens if they all sadly pass away maybe you could try again and practically restart the tank and try some different kinds of fish like tetras or barbs, they might be more successful. Do you have any other fishtanks? I have a had a similar experience. I had just gotten my 10 gallon tank running after a few years of taking a break. I bought 7 cardinal tetras and 2 otocinclus. The tank got infected with ich and I wasn’t able to treat It in time. All the tetras died only the 2 otocinclus survived but one died after not looking very good for awhile. Then the last fish from that setup ( otocinclus ) died a few months later. I started again with flame tetras and had to add a lot more fish from a cross country move from combining tanks. All the fish seem to be doing pretty good except for a few random deaths maybe from old age now. I hope you are able to figure out the problem and if it comes to it start again. I also hope this not so great experience hasn’t ruined your fish keeping time in the future.

 

[Fox46]

Very unfortunate. What are all the fish in the tank with the high mortality? You could just keep trying and see if some of the fish get better and survive. Do you know what the gH and ph of your tank are, because that could be possibly harming the fish on the long term. I would just see what happens if they all sadly pass away maybe you could try again and practically restart the tank and try some different kinds of fish like tetras or barbs, they might be more successful. Do you have any other fishtanks? I have a had a similar experience. I had just gotten my 10 gallon tank running after a few years of taking a break. I bought 7 cardinal tetras and 2 otocinclus. The tank got infected with ich and I wasn’t able to treat It in time. All the tetras died only the 2 otocinclus survived but one died after not looking very good for awhile. Then the last fish from that setup ( otocinclus ) died a few months later. I started again with flame tetras and had to add a lot more fish from a cross country move from combining tanks. All the fish seem to be doing pretty good except for a few random deaths maybe from old age now. I hope you are able to figure out the problem and if it comes to it start again. I also hope this not so great experience hasn’t ruined your fish keeping time in the future.

All I've ever had in there are Pearl Gourami, Guppies, Dwarf Neon Rainbowfish and Platys. (So nothing complicated) The Guppies I half-expected to be short-lived, they were exotic colours, exotic finnage so I guessed overbred. I checked the pH last month - 7.8. The kH was 14 (jbl test) and I'd run out of gH test but when I checked last year it was ok. I've got some more gH test coming. I have a second tank, absolutely no issues so I know it's not my cleaning routine, not the incoming water, not the feeding regime. I'm glad your tank is doing better now, it's soul destroying losing fish and especially not being able to pin-point the cause. I'm resigned now to the fact that this tank is likely to come to an end and I won't restock. I'll just keep the other smaller tank. Thanks for your response.

 

[Fishies4Ever]

All I've ever had in there are Pearl Gourami, Guppies, Dwarf Neon Rainbowfish and Platys. (So nothing complicated) The Guppies I half-expected to be short-lived, they were exotic colours, exotic finnage so I guessed overbred. I checked the pH last month - 7.8. The kH was 14 (jbl test) and I'd run out of gH test but when I checked last year it was ok. I've got some more gH test coming. I have a second tank, absolutely no issues so I know it's not my cleaning routine, not the incoming water, not the feeding regime. I'm glad your tank is doing better now, it's soul destroying losing fish and especially not being able to pin-point the cause. I'm resigned now to the fact that this tank is likely to come to an end and I won't restock. I'll just keep the other smaller tank. Thanks for your response.

That defiantly makes sense to not restock in the future.

 

[Colin_T]

The dead platy in picture does not have hole in the head disease. Platies don't normally get that disease. It does look like it has a bacterial infection around the head and this could be killing them.

You might have gotten a bad batch of platies that were infected with something before you got them. However, you have had them for 5 months so one would think if they were bad to begin with, they would have started dying shortly after you got them.

You could try moving the remaining platies into a spare tank and treat them with a broad spectrum medication that treats bacteria, fungus and external protozoa.

 

[Fox46]

The dead platy in picture does not have hole in the head disease. Platies don't normally get that disease. It does look like it has a bacterial infection around the head and this could be killing them.

You might have gotten a bad batch of platies that were infected with something before you got them. However, you have had them for 5 months so one would think if they were bad to begin with, they would have started dying shortly after you got them.

You could try moving the remaining platies into a spare tank and treat them with a broad spectrum medication that treats bacteria, fungus and external protozoa.

Do you know a product that fits the bill, thanks.