High Ammonia Levels

[The-Raven]

My tank has been cycling for coming up on 3 weeks now. And ever since the near-beginning my ammonia readings have always shown it to be between 1.0 and 3.0. Never dropping and never rising. There was a period last week where my fish were looking rather miserable, and I lost one, but now they're all pretty active and lively again. The ammonia readings the same all the time.

Now my nitrite readings are getting high, obviously its turn to spike. But my ammonia readings are still 1.0-3.0.



I have a theory on why, and here it is: When I first tested my water on about the third or fourth day of cycling, the reading was around 1.0-3.0... fearing the worst, I rushed to the store and bought an ammonia detoxifier - thinking that it would help my little fish survive. Well, I think all it did was lock it away, not really destroying it. So while the ammonia isn't toxic enough to kill my fish... it's still there, and giving me these insane, unwaivering readings.

Am I right? And if so, should I do a big water change (50%+) to remove the 'fake' ammonia?

I do a 25-30% water change every other day or so.

 

[chris allsop]

Im havin problems with my ammonia on my establised tnk, ive got one the ammo blocks you mention. i have not used it yet, i only got it as a last resort. I also got some poly filler and stress zyme. water changes are the best way to go as i was advised on my post, i just wanted an instant fix. which does not really happen. Get some zyme and keep up water changes, cut down on feeding and you should be ok.
Good luck, chris

 

[nc_nutcase]

<~~~ agrees with Chris

a chemical started your problem... so I doubt one will fix it... although the distributor of the chems will tell you different....

Cycling is really letting nature turn a glass box full of drinking water into a natural system... personally I think that something natural (like a fish) would help this proces a lot more than... more chemicals..... But what do I know...........

 

[The-Raven]

<~~~ agrees with Chris

a chemical started your problem... so I doubt one will fix it... although the distributor of the chems will tell you different....

Cycling is really letting nature turn a glass box full of drinking water into a natural system... personally I think that something natural (like a fish) would help this proces a lot more than... more chemicals..... But what do I know...........

...I've been using fish. I added an ammonia-detoxifier, and I'm asking if that's messing up my ammonia readings, because I'm having a nitrite spike, which obviously means that natural ammonia is pretty much gone.

 

[nc_nutcase]

Don't take my advice! But I'm gonna say it anyway... lol

I rarely monitor my numbers when cycling (Ima bad example!) so I'm less than 100% sure of what means what. I do know that on the bottle of "Ammo Lock" that I have it states (paraphrased) "using this product converts ammonia into a non lethal form but Ammonia test kits will still detect Ammonia. Be sure to wait ___ days before retesting for Ammonia". I left out the number because your brand may have a different number than mine (and I'm too lazy to go get it ) But from what I've read above, that time frame should have passed.

As far as can you have an Ammonia spike and a NitrIte spike at the same time.... HELP IM IN OVER MY HEAD!!

 

[sinistral]

What was the product you used? Was it Amquel? What test kit are you using?

As I see it, there are a few possibilities.

The first is that your ammonia readings are true. In the early stages of getting nitrite readings, ammonia really may not drop all that much (check out this chart). Since the development of bacterial colonies is exponential, after a few days you should see a corresponding exponential drop in ammonia. However, this scenario might account for your continued high ammonia readings.

The second possibility is as you describe it. You used Amquel or a similar product and are using a type of test kit that is incompatible with it.

This is from the data sheet for Amquel:

AmQuel is compatible to use with all water quality test kits except for the ammonia test kit that uses Nessler reagents that read in shades of amber or yellow, and the oxygen kit that uses Winkler reagents. Residual AmQuel and its reaction products are incompatible with the Nessler and Winkler-type test reagents, resulting in false, high ammonia and low oxygen concentration readings.

cf. this citation.

Fortunately, because of the way Amquel works, apparently the resulting compound is stable at neutral pH. If you are interested, chemically (disclaimer: I'm not an organic chemist and took orgo years and years ago), the reaction is NH3 + HOCH2SO3- ---> NH2CH2SO3- + H2O (the OH group attacks one of the hydrogens of the ammonia and is replaced with by NH2).

The bottom line is that if you used Amquel, it will (apparently) form a stable compound in the water that is non-toxic.

However...depending on how long ago you used the ammonia locking agent, the daily water changes you are doing ought to have removed the compound and the ammonia that the compound acted upon.

IMO, the more likely possibility is this: even though you used an ammonia locking compound a day, a week, two weeks ago, since the ammonia compound is removed with water changes, it ought not permanently affect your water readings. This is particularly true if you are doing *daily* water changes of 25-30% (after just 3 days, assuming 25% changes, there is only 42% of the original water remaining, after 7 days just 13.3%).

My guess is that more likely ammonia is continuing to be produced at a rate which leaves you at an equilibrium of 1.0-3.0.

You are at the beginning of the nitrite spike. As this continues, you should see a drop in ammonia.

I'm sorry that I haven't been following your other posts; I do get the sense that this has been a particularly difficult cycle in which you may not have felt supported. I'm hopeful that this post will be useful for you. I am also wondering...at what rate are you feeding the fish? The amount of ammonia being produced seems quite unreasonable for a few slim-bodied fish and a shrimp.

Really hope this is helpful~ Best of luck. I'd be very interested to hear if the product you used was not Amquel. Also, would be very interested to hear other hypotheses about what might be going on.