Help!

[Kazman]

Hi,

We have a female paradise fish and noticed yesterday that she was swimming backwards quite a lot. We weren't too worried as Paradise fish tend to hover and swim backwards every now and then but I've got back from work and noticed that that is all she can do now!. She is even backing into ornaments and plants and doesn't seem to be able to stop herself. She doesn't seem too stressed (although maybe a bit embaressed) as she still has her colour but I'm worried that it seems to be getting worse!.

Any ideas?. Could this be swim bladder?. Has anyone else seen this before?

 

[WILDER]

Can you post water stats in ammonia,nitrite,nitrate,and ph, what size tank, how many fish and which type, is the fish bloated, can it maintain it's balance in the water, and is the fish eating, also what does it look like when the fish goes to the toilet, is there any flicking and rubbing against objects, check if scales are sticking out, also finally what do you feed the fish.

 

[Kazman]

We checked the water stats last night. I'll post the results in a couple of mins as I haven't got the figures here but everything seemed a-ok.

The tank is 110ltrs and we have 2 paradise fish, 3 red robin gouramis, 1 sucking loach, 4 danios and 2 shrimp. She was under stress over the weekend as our tank cracked and we had to rush out and buy a new tank and transfer them from buckets that we kept them over night in but we were careful to transfer the filter medium and gravel and leave the tank for a few hours to adjust. The other fish seem to have settled in fine to the new tank. We feed them Tetra crisps and the occasional algae wafer and she was trying to eat them but it's looked quite difficult for her to grab them. She can swim forwards when stressed as sucking loach was having a bit of a chase (which he does every now and then but he always gives up after a few seconds) and she managed to swim away from him but when she stopped she started swiming backwards again.

She doesn't seem bloated at all and there are no fins sticking out. She is bashing into objects but this seems to be in error rather than to scratch an itch? Do you think it might be constipation?.

 

[WILDER]

That's the problem with stress desease can set in,did you use any old tank water to put into the new tank, was it all clean fresh water with added declorinator,try some others foods on her like frozen her favourites, best thing is just to keep watching her, did you add the fish back to the correct temp as the water in the buckets.

 

[Kazman]

Yeah we had heater and thermometers in the buckets and then floated the fish in bags for about half an hour to adjust them. We saved as much water as possible from the old tank (about 2 buckets and a few saucepans worth in the end) but the rest was new and de-clorinated with the old filter medium running and old gravel. Actually she was the first in the tank (by her choice!) as she jumped out of her bag and into the tank first but she had been floating for a while and the temps matched the buckets. I shall try her on a pea and get some blood worms tomorrow which she likes. I suppose if all else fails we could set up a hospital tank and see if she likes her own company for a bit. We were thinking about getting another female to keep her company as the male seems to think she's a very attractive fish and does follow her a lot. Maybe she just needs some 'me' time!!

 

[WILDER]

They also can have funny swimming patterns with ph shock, best bet for now is just to observe the fish, and see how she goes, good luck.

 

[Kazman]

Thanks for all your help Wilder, we shall watch her closely.

 

[WILDER]

Read this just found it today.
http/www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/behavior/otherbe.shtml

 

[sylvia]

Let me just warn you that the sucking loach will eventualy start killing fish as it matures. They get to 10" and enjoy sucking on fish, later fish eyes and later still have fishy snacks. They are not a good fish to keep with flat-bodied or slow-moving, lazy fish - such as gouramies - because they find them easy targets. They are evil little (well they get quite big ) things... Unfortunately, many LFSs sell them as good algae eaters which they are not as they mature.

Then I should say adding another female may not be the best idea as paradise fish are territorial and any new 'intruders' will be harassed and chased. This is very stressful - especialy for a new fish - and could actualy kill it. I would suggest adding 2 at once (which is much less stressful as attention is devided) but in a tank just over 25 gallons, 4 paradise fish and 3 gouramies is just asking for trouble.

Actualy I would be quite surprised if your paradise fish are mature... How long have you had them? What size are they? They generaly don't get along too well with peaceful gouramies like the dwarfs you have and can get quite aggressive as they get older. There are many exceptions of course (that's how all gouramies/anabantoids are ) but it's good to be aware of the risks you are taking.

Now concerning what's wrong with your fish, are you shure there's something actualy wrong? I know that's a very strange question to ask but you say that she CAN swim forwards so she can't possibly have a swim bladder problem and as far as I can tell she is otherwise capable of keeping her balance and isn't showing any signs of disease. Did she eat when you fed her? You said she seemed to have trouble getting to the food - are you sure she wasn't just shying away from your presense and backing up in the process? regardless, I suggest you add some floating and tall-growing plants for the sake of all your gouramies and then just keep the water quality excellent and keep an eye out for trouble. Varying the fish' diet a bit doesn't hurt either - frozen daphnia and brine shrimp is a good place to start and both serve as easy-to-digest healthy treats. Do feed her some shelled peas and see if that makes a difference though...

 

[Kazman]

Ah good stuff - Thanks!. Well maybe it is just the stress of the move and the change in tank that's upset her. And as you say the PH is bound to be slightly different. Think I'll sit in the other room tonight though as I can't bear to watch her manouvering round the tank backwards!

BTW, I put some peas in and the other fish say thanks, but she showed no interest.

 

[Kazman]

Yes the sucking loach was a mistake. We've had him for about 6 months and he normally keeps himself to himself but we watch him closely and we'll move him or pass him back to one of the dealers round here if he starts causing problems. He's quite a character but he does have an evil streak in him!

The Pardise fish are about 3 inches in body length and seem to get on fine with the Gouramis at the moment. They often hang around together and never nip but thanks, we will definetly watch them closely. I love the gouramis so shall protect them at all cost.

That's good advice about another girlie, the male and female have been together for about 8 months and seem fine with each other so there's no point upsetting them for the sake of it. The male has had quite a few attempts at building a bubble nest but the current is a bit strong for him but he likes to try.

I only really think something is up as it's such unusual behaviour for her and the fact that she is actually backing into objects worries me. We have lots of caves and plants for her to hid in and she doesn't seem to be getting bullied (apart from evil sucker every now and then). We will do a water change tomorrow and see how things are.

 

[Kazman]

Update - sad news I'm afraid, she died. She seemed to get loads better, started swimming in the right direction and then, bam no more female paradise fish!. We had moved her to a hospital tank as we thought it may have been bacterial rather than psychological (analysing fish now - what next!?) and went out to by some anti-bac treatment but got back and she was dead!. Wish we knew what killed her, makes you feel very helpless!

All other fish are doing fine. We did take the CAE to our LFS and even though they won't sell them to the public as they're evil blighters, he said they would keep him as an algae eater in the shop! We've sent him out to work! We'll keep our eyes out for him next time we're there!

 

[WILDER]

Sorry for your loss, like to no how the algae eater is doing at the shop when you next visit.

 

[Kazman]

Thanks Wilder, I wonder if he'll recognise us!!

 

[WILDER]

I doubt it lol.