Help

[billieollie]

Please can someone help me. I know nothing about goldfish, and have tried to get help by reading various messeges, but its all in 'fish talk', I need someone to explain to me in plain english. I won at a fun fair nearly 2 years ago 2 goldfish for my daughter. They have grown and grown, they are beautiful. As they have grown I have bought bigger tanks for them, the latest tank is 5ft long, which they have now been in for 2 weeks. as the tank is so big I bought 4 more goldfish. the new ones are fine, its billie and ollie that are not looking so well. bille has gone a very light orange and I can now see blood, it looks like veins in the tails, and in the fin. and it is very red where the fin touches the body. they are both staying at the bottom of the tank. I have put plants in the tank and have a big filter which is working. I feed them on flakes. I feel so bad, they are both laying side by side at the bottom of the tank. I have now taken them out and put them back in their old tank. please someone tell me what I can do, in plain english please...thank you

 

[WILDER]

Need to no water stats in ammonia,nitrite,nitrate,and ph, as red streaks in the tail can be due to poor water quality, dosn't sound like your filter can cope with all the fish, as goldfish are big waste producers, i would do an immediate water change, plus check the filter to see if it's running ok, and i would invest in another filter too, rules in goldifsh are 20gal for the first fish, then ten gals for every other fish added.

 

[xautomaticflowersx]

Hi there! First off I'll apologise if I touch on anything you already know all about, but you said in 'plain English' so I'm going to write the following with the assumption that you don't know it already
Red streaks in the tail or fins is generally an idicator of septicemia (blood poisoning). This can be caused by several different things such as an infected injury to the affected area (perhaps the tail was scraped on an ornament or something and the wound became infected), a secondary infection caused by finrot or poor water quality. Once the infection reaches the base of the tail and starts to progress up the body then it can be very difficult to treat.

You said that you recently set up the new 5ft tank and added four more goldfish all at once after adding the original pair. Aquariums can take a few weeks to cycle when they are set up ('cycling' is the term applied to the maturation of the bacterial colonies in the tank... here are some pages about cycling: http/www.thetropicaltank.co.uk/cycling.htm http/www.thetropicaltank.co.uk/cycling2.htm ). The bacteria that needs to become established in the tank helps to break down the fish waste and turn the ammonia (harmful to fish) that the fish produce into nitrites (slightly less toxic but still harmful), which is then broken down by different bacteria which then produce nitrates (relatively harmless, but can cause lots of algae to grow). Because it takes a bit of time for the bacteria to colonise in the water, the filter sponge and the sand/gravel (especially in a tank that's as big as a 5ft one) the water becomes full of a backlog of ammonia and nitrites because there isn't enough bacteria in the tank to consume it. Basically the ammonia and nitrites then begin to poison the fish causing different illnesses. The fact that you added four more goldfish so quickly after setting up the tank will be adding more fish waste than the bacteria could handle at that point.

I would begin by increasing the amount of water changes you perform. Remove and replace about 25% of the tank water every other day. This will help to remove and dilute the pollution in the water. Also, you don't need to feed your goldfish every single day... one good feed every other day is fine. Excess food in the water will add to the ammonia buildup and the more your fish eat the more they will excrete! Obviously I'm not saying starve your fish, but once every other day is fine. If you know other people with fish tanks that have been set up for quite a long time you could ask them for some of the sponge from their filter and some tank water (provided that non of their fish has any illnesses and everything is nice and healthy) to help add good bacteria to your own tank and help things along slightly.

The trouble with septicemia is that you will need to introduce an antibiotic to the water to try and combat the infection. However, this can also sometimes weaken the good bacteria in the tank! However, I would still recommend that you treat with an antibiotic as it sounds as though the infection is quite advanced since the fish are listless and the red discolouration is visible on the body at the base of the fins. Waterlife's 'Myxazin' is designed to help combat finrot and infections. Look here: http/www.aquatics-online.co.uk/Z121256.asp

I really hope things start to look up for your two ill goldfish, but it sounds like the infection is quite bad

 

[WILDER]

Water changes might clear it up if the infection hasn't progressed to far.

Plus i would add some salt, one tablespoon to 5 gal.

 

[billieollie]

Hi there! First off I'll apologise if I touch on anything you already know all about, but you said in 'plain English' so I'm going to write the following with the assumption that you don't know it already
Red streaks in the tail or fins is generally an idicator of septicemia (blood poisoning). This can be caused by several different things such as an infected injury to the affected area (perhaps the tail was scraped on an ornament or something and the wound became infected), a secondary infection caused by finrot or poor water quality. Once the infection reaches the base of the tail and starts to progress up the body then it can be very difficult to treat.

You said that you recently set up the new 5ft tank and added four more goldfish all at once after adding the original pair. Aquariums can take a few weeks to cycle when they are set up ('cycling' is the term applied to the maturation of the bacterial colonies in the tank... here are some pages about cycling: http/www.thetropicaltank.co.uk/cycling.htm http/www.thetropicaltank.co.uk/cycling2.htm ). The bacteria that needs to become established in the tank helps to break down the fish waste and turn the ammonia (harmful to fish) that the fish produce into nitrites (slightly less toxic but still harmful), which is then broken down by different bacteria which then produce nitrates (relatively harmless, but can cause lots of algae to grow). Because it takes a bit of time for the bacteria to colonise in the water, the filter sponge and the sand/gravel (especially in a tank that's as big as a 5ft one) the water becomes full of a backlog of ammonia and nitrites because there isn't enough bacteria in the tank to consume it. Basically the ammonia and nitrites then begin to poison the fish causing different illnesses. The fact that you added four more goldfish so quickly after setting up the tank will be adding more fish waste than the bacteria could handle at that point.

I would begin by increasing the amount of water changes you perform. Remove and replace about 25% of the tank water every other day. This will help to remove and dilute the pollution in the water. Also, you don't need to feed your goldfish every single day... one good feed every other day is fine. Excess food in the water will add to the ammonia buildup and the more your fish eat the more they will excrete! Obviously I'm not saying starve your fish, but once every other day is fine. If you know other people with fish tanks that have been set up for quite a long time you could ask them for some of the sponge from their filter and some tank water (provided that non of their fish has any illnesses and everything is nice and healthy) to help add good bacteria to your own tank and help things along slightly.

The trouble with septicemia is that you will need to introduce an antibiotic to the water to try and combat the infection. However, this can also sometimes weaken the good bacteria in the tank! However, I would still recommend that you treat with an antibiotic as it sounds as though the infection is quite advanced since the fish are listless and the red discolouration is visible on the body at the base of the fins. Waterlife's 'Myxazin' is designed to help combat finrot and infections. Look here: http/www.aquatics-online.co.uk/Z121256.asp

I really hope things start to look up for your two ill goldfish, but it sounds like the infection is quite bad

 

[WILDER]

You will need to treat with interpet anti internal bacteria med good luck.
Not the writer of this information below.
Septicemia



Symptoms:

Fish may have reddening at fin bases, blood streaks throughout the fins and body, small hemorrhages around the eyes. Dull listless behavior and lack of appetite may also be present.



Cause:

Systemic bacterial infection caused by various bacteria, including Aeromonas, Pseudomonas and Vibrio. The illness is often brought on by poor water quality or as a result of parasitic infestations or other infections. These bacteria enter the blood stream and circulate through the tissues causing inflammation and damage. Inflamed blood vessels in the skin and at fin bases stand out. Blood vessel and heart tissue damage cause hemorrhaging and consequently leakage of body fluids into the abdomen, which may lead to Dropsy.



Treatment:

Water conditions must be improved for all fish in the tank, regardless of how many fish are infected. Check your water’s Treat with Kanacyn or Tetracycline as well as with a medicated food if the fish will eat. If parasites are suspected, all the fish in the tank should be treated with antiparasitic medication. Using salt to help restore osmotic balance might be helpful.




interpet no.9
http/www.aquatics-online.co.uk/listsecti...tp=100&rets=231

 

[billieollie]

Thank you to everyone that got back to me about Billie and Ollie, I have now put them back in their old tank with fresh water and have now emptied about half of the water out of the new tank. I have refilled new tank and added Aquasafe. Someone suggested adding salt...is this just everyday normal salt??? Can someone explain why only my original goldfish have become ill and not the four new ones?? or will they get ill aswell. They seem fine. On Ollies tail it seems to be splitting is this also to do with the water? As an animal lover, I have rescued horses, cats and approx over 200 hundred dogs, I feel really bad that its my fault that Billie and Ollie are ill, is their a humane way of puuting them to sleep, just incase it gets worse, or I have I got to wait to see them on the top of the water?? also could someone tell me what is the correct water tempreture for them. Thank you

 

[WILDER]

A stressed fish can soon become ill, you have a secondary infection of bacterial finrot so you will need a bacteria med, caused through poor water quality, i would get your water tested as soon as possilbe and do a few daily water changes, yes you can use normal salt, i do i will leave you a link.

http/ukdiscus.com/ken_thomson_salt.htm

http/www.kenliz.plus.com/Salt_use.html

 

[xautomaticflowersx]

Do let us know how your fishies get on!

 

[billieollie]

Hi again,
thought I'd let you know how Billie and Ollie are doing....well, they are still here!!! Fish shop tested water, it turned pink when it should of been clear!! was told to stop feeding fish for 3 to 4 days (today is the 3rd day..they do look hungry!!) also bought some medicine, Billie's tail is now completly in shreads, but other than that he seems to be OK. Ollie has gone a very pale colour and is covered in blood, spends most of the time at the bottom between a rock and the filter, but is as I type swiming around!! one of the other four has now got 2 blood spots on her (tinkerbell) Fish shop said not to touch the water for at least 2 weeks, but have bought another filter/pump to help with the fish poo. will be in touch with an update in a couple of days, once again thanks for all the advice. bye for now

 

[RandomWiktor]

It seems to me that your shop has advised you wrong if they said not to do anything to the water in 2 weeks. Septicemia requires cleaning very frequently to be eliminated! I would follow automatic flowers' advice and do 25% changes every day or two. I would also add the goldfish dosage for aquarium salt to your tank, and if the fish get very severe or do not improve, consider anti-biotics. It sounds like the shop just wanted to sell you another filter. While it will def. help prevent future septicemia, the problem itself must first be corrected before the fish pass on.

 

[WILDER]

Are you medicating as some of them sound in a bad way, I would do a water change, did he tell you your readings.

 

[billieollie]

Hi,
The shop said not to change the water for 2 weeks as, I have to put medicine in the tank everyday for 7 days. The medicine he sold me is All Natural Melafix, its an antibacterial. The 3rd fish to know have blood on him is one of the new ones. Please advise me if this medicine is not correct, if it is no good which one should I get?? have been using this one since monday, need to continue until next monday.

 

[xautomaticflowersx]

I've never used Melafix before to be honest, but from I can gather it is quite a good product for helping to heal wounds and *preventing* infection. I don't know how good it is at actually combating infection once it's already established since I've no experience with it. Lots of people swear by it though. I understand what they're saying about the water changes diluting the medication, but if you use a large measuring jug to remove the water then you'll know how much you're taking out and how much medication to replace when you add fresh water. It's good to hear that your fish are at least more active even though they still sound in a bad way.

 

[RandomWiktor]

Melafix is used to heal superficial wounds such as scale loss, fin deterioration, and ulcers. However, it is relatively ineffective against internal infection.
My suggestion for treating Septicemia in goldfish, which has worked for me and other members I have helped with it, is as following:
- Significant water changes ~ every 3 days. (Test water daily to make sure it is not needed more often) This is probably more important even than medication.
- Anti-bacterial food from Jungle fed 2x's daily. Use discretion with quantity.
- Maracyn-2 to combat septicemia. Read box carefully and dose exactly. You may want to grind the tablets so the goldfish do not ingest them.
- Aquarium salt reccomended for Goldfish; I believe the dose is 1/2 tsp per gallon of water. I know you can technically use table salt, but I've heard mixed opinions on the effects of iodine, so really I think aquarium salt is probably safest.
- Water temp lowered. Goldfish produce more waste, and bacteria multiplies more readily, in warm water. I kept my fish at between 65-70 during treatment; the usual tank temp is 75 due to the light.

Good luck, and I hope they improve. Significant hemmorage def. warrants bringing out the big guns.