Help with stocking tank/ Questions about a few fish!

[Jacob Ingram]

Hello! I'm Jacob, and I started my first aquarium around a month ago. My current lineup of fish are 3 Clown Plecos and 6 Neon Tetras. My tank is a 20 Gallon, and I can get the measurements right quick if I need to. Originally, I was going to find some Khuli Loaches and use them in place of the Plecos, but I couldn't find any in my area, so my three plecos are doing great. I also have two Marimo balls, more for aesthetic reasons than anything, but I also hear they have benefits along with other things. Here are my only problems so far!

Are there any issues with the current stock? Of course, I would assume this is greatly understocked, but I'll get to that next.

My full course is gonna be this: 3 Clown Plecos, each growing to a max of 4 inches, 6 Neon Tetras, each growing to a max of 1 inch, and 1 Betta fish, occupying the rest of the gal/inch ratio thing that I heard so much about. Is there any issues with this? Would that be understocked too?

Another thing I was wondering is this: The tetras I have now are pretty docile. I heard from some other sources that this could be because their little school isn't big enough. Should I add more? Or would that screw with the tank and overstock it?

Really appreciate the help, everyone! Gonna get the next fish this weekend, weather it be the final piece in the form of a betta, or some more tetras!

 

[Valerie Adams]

A 20 gallon high or long? Either way, I would rehome at least two of the plecos but preferably them all unless you're willing to do a couple water changes a week. They create A LOT of waste. Generally, only one pleco isn't recommended for anything less than a 29g.

Besides that, you have temperature differences. You could do the betta, cardinal tetras and the clown pleco at around 78-80F. But the neons prefer cooler water than the pleco and the betta. I'd also be very careful when adding a betta with other fish.

 

[Colin_T]

Hi and welcome to the forum

Your neons, Betta and catfish can live in 24-26C water without any issues. But watch the Betta because some are peaceful and some are agro.

Neons should be kept in big groups, 10 or more if possible.

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Has the tank/ filter been cycled yet?
If no, then don't get any more fish until the filters have developed the beneficial filter bacteria required to keep the ammonia and nitrite levels at 0.

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If you have a male Betta, put some floating plants in for him to hide in. Water Sprite (Ceratopteris thalictroides/ cornuta) is the best floating plant to use.

 

[Byron]

Welcome to TFF.

Betta (male) is not a community fish, so I would not even consider adding one here. The Betta and neons are highly unlikely to accept each other. Many years ago I watched a Betta easily eat a neon in my 20 gallon. Betta usually (if normal) will regard other fish as intruders, and other fish that are small will see a Betta as a nice target for fin nipping or worse.

As for the other fish mentioned, increase the neons to 8-9; shoaling fish are always better with more than the minimum suggested. And I agree on the pleco, one in this tank is all you should have.

 

[Jacob Ingram]

Thanks to all three of you! I'd be more than happy start reconsidering the tank mates; The well-being, comfort, and safety of the fish are all of the utmost importance to me. The tank is a 20 Gallon long, cycled for about 5 weeks now. If the plecos and the tetras are different in temperature preference, then I will probably relocate the plecos and try to find some fish that are closer in the tetra's temperature range. Id like to have fish near the middle, bottom, and top of the tank, if possible, and in that order. If that is feasible, let me know!

I'll rethink the betta, and come up with another, better community fish. I almost want to call it a 'center-piece,' sort of a solo, cool little guy. Any thoughts on fish that could perform like the betta would have, just a little more kind?

What should I do with the plecos? I really love the little guys, but if it will cause them distress to be there, then I will gladly move them, at least the larger of the two. Of course, I wont dump them to local water or anything. I don't really have the room for a larger tank though, nor do I have the means to buy another tank. Thoughts?

Are the tetras sort of unique in their temperature range? Or are there other common types of fish that would be fine in the temperature of a Tetra?

Again, thanks so much to you all. So far, I love the hobby. Its really meditative to me, after a long day of class or work, to see the little habitat I am maintaining. I'll admit, the Plecos are gonna be hard to pass along. I already named 'em! They are certainly personable. But if it means they will be healthy and happy elsewhere, I will be glad to find them a new home. Bless y'all!

 

[Sarah73]

I suggest to remove two of the clowns plecos. What are you feeding yours? Or are you not feeding them? I don't know how you feed three clowns properly without creating a lot of waste. I have three bristle nose plecos and they process lots of waste!

 

[Byron]

I concur with Sarah. One pleco is all that should really be kept in this small a tank. While peaceful and rather shy, this species is territorial with conspecifics [others of the species] so with more than one the tank should be larger (3 feet and up) to provide sufficient space for individual territories. One is fine in a 20g long.

This species, Panaqolus maccus, is omnivorous but in its habitat it feeds on logs and branches, eating the wood itself along with aufwuchs [algae mats containing rotifers, small crustaceans, insect larvae, protozoans]. In the aquarium wood must be provided as a staple of its diet. This fish will eat some species of algae, prepared sinking foods that contain vegetable matter along with shrimp, fish meal, etc. Blanched vegetables such as zucchini, yams, squash, cucumber, spinach, romaine, banana. Live or frozen brine shrimp, bloodworms, blackworms.

As with all vegetarian-based fish, the quantity of food ingested in much greater than many more carnivore fish, hence the large amount of waste. Substantial water changes of 60-70% weekly (at the one time) and vacuuming of the substrate can help with this, provided the biological balance is otherwise maintained.

As these fish were recently acquisitions, perhaps the store will accept the return of two? They may not refund the money, but finding a home is the important issue. Or if you have a local club, a member may take one or both?

On the centerpiece fish...this is almost impossible to successfully achieve in smaller tanks. Tanks like a 20g long is well suited to nano-size fish that live in shoals, so you can have more of them which usually provides more interest. Finding fish to occupy the upper, middle and lower levels is not too difficult, but we will first need t know the water parameters. Small fish are often wild caught and attention must be paid to the parameters; finding fish that are suited to your water makes life (yours and theirs) much easier.

The GH (general or total hardness) of the source water (tap water presumably) is the most important, then pH. The GH you might be able to get from the municipal water authority, check their website; pH might be there too. Or you can call them. With the number for the GH, make sure you also get their unit of measurement [mg/l, ppm, degrees, etc] so we will know.

On the temperature question...this is the fourth water parameter (GH, pH, KH or Alkalinity, and temperature] but one we can easily control to suit the fish. "Tropical" fish suggests to many that the fish all live together at the same warm temperature, but this is not at all the reality. Temperature is very important because fish are ectothermic and the temperature of the water is what drives their metabolism. The warmer the water, the harder the fish must work just to perform the necessary functions of life; cooler water slows down the metabolism, and if too extreme prevents it from functioning and the fish weakens and usually dies. While fish have some degree of tolerance, it is limited, and when considering long-term care we should aim for the best temperature for the species in the aquarium. Each species has a fairly limited range; they function best at a temperature but can tolerate higher or lower for shorter periods but if these become the norm the fish usually weakens.

Temperature in the tropical waters of South America and SE Asia where most of our aquarium fish originate are not as variable as some may think. A very few degrees diurnally, and the same seasonally. There are some exceptions of course, but the point is that the temperature of the water is say the Rio Negro is not going to fluctuate by more than a couple of degrees (if at all) diurnally, and seasonal variations are very minimal too. When we have the GH and pH it will be easier to suggest suitable fish.

 

[Jacob Ingram]

Thanks for all the info. I will call into the store to see if a refund for the two is possible. May or may not go for the tetras as well, depending on how the new fish come up!

My city bears a water hardness 'in the 20-30 ppm range,' which they quote as being very soft. I called the water plant, and they said the water is anywhere from 7-7 and 1/2.

I called into the shop, and they said they'd gladly take back the two pleco's. Sounds fine for me! Glad to hear about the 'centerpiece' idea. Ill be sure to just get some good shoaling fish!

 

[Byron]

Thanks for all the info. I will call into the store to see if a refund for the two is possible. May or may not go for the tetras as well, depending on how the new fish come up!

My city bears a water hardness 'in the 20-30 ppm range,' which they quote as being very soft. I called the water plant, and they said the water is anywhere from 7-7 and 1/2.

I called into the shop, and they said they'd gladly take back the two pleco's. Sounds fine for me! Glad to hear about the 'centerpiece' idea. Ill be sure to just get some good shoaling fish!

GH is good, there are many more options in soft water fish species for small tanks. I will just list some that come to mind, you can look them up and see how you like them, and/or see if they have them or can get them at your stores. Keep in mind that wild caught fish are often only available periodically, such as after the collection season (this is controlled in many areas now, fortunately), so you may have to wait for this or that. But don't rush to fill the tank up then find something you'd prefer later. I'll give the scientific name which is always more reliable and certain than common names that can vary, and you can search these on Seriously Fish which has all reliable data:
http://www.seriouslyfish.com/

For all of these you need a smallish group, most would be best with 8-9. Obviously not all of these together, but you could have maybe two mid-level species, one or two upper/surface species, and one of the substrate cories.

Mid-level:
Ember Tetra (Hyphessobrycon amandae)
Dwarf Rasbora (Boraras brigittae, or Boraras maculatus, or one of the other similar 4 or 5 species)
Dwarf Pencilfish (Nannostomus marginatus)
Coral Red Pencilfish (Nannostomus mortenthaleri)

Substrate:
Pygmy cory (Corydoras pygmaeus)
Salt and Pepper Cory (Corydoras habrosus)
Panda cory (Corydoras panda)

Upper/surface:
Marble Hatchetfish (Carnegiella strigata)
Rocket or Dip-tail Pencilfish (Nannostomus eques)

 

[Jacob Ingram]

I really can't thank you enough! I'll look through these different fish and see what I can find for each. Ill keep this all updated, or make a new thread, so that I can learn more about the craft. Thanks a ton!

 

[Byron]

I really can't thank you enough! I'll look through these different fish and see what I can find for each. Ill keep this all updated, or make a new thread, so that I can learn more about the craft. Thanks a ton!

You are certainly welcome. Those were just ideas I recalled at the moment, there are other options that will be similar. But see what you think of these as a start.

 

[Jacob Ingram]

So, after looking at my options, I came up with this little list: 5 Panda Cory's, 8 Ember tetras, and 3 Marbled hatchet fish. Would that be a little too much? I read that the panda Corys like to have little groups, and the ember tetras seem great. I could go either way with the hatchet fish or with the Rocket Pencilfish. Thoughts?

 

[Colin_T]

You could use Honey Dwarf or Indian Banded gouramis instead of the male Betta.

Get 10 neons, your small pleco and a pr of Honey Dwarf gouramis.

Do not get the normal dwarf gourami (Trichogaster lalius) or any of its colour forms because they have a couple of nasty diseases that kill them.

 

[Byron]

So, after looking at my options, I came up with this little list: 5 Panda Cory's, 8 Ember tetras, and 3 Marbled hatchet fish. Would that be a little too much? I read that the panda Corys like to have little groups, and the ember tetras seem great. I could go either way with the hatchet fish or with the Rocket Pencilfish. Thoughts?

You must have more hatchetfish, at least 8-9 and in this tank I would not go higher than 9 but I would definitely recommend 9. I have kept all the described species in this genus for many years, and without doubt they always are healthier and longer-lived with larger groups than the often-suggested five or six. Floating plants are also necessary; you want some open surface as these species spend all their time right at the surface (unless scared by something) but "islands" of floating plants are necessary to calm them. Water Sprite, Water Lettuce, Frogbit are three perfect floating plants for this; small floaters like duckweed and Salvinia really do not offer the same.

I would also increase the panda cories to seven. Believe me, there will be a significant difference to the fish. I have maintained this species for several years, and I am regularly finding fry (this is an easy species to spawn) and they are just about the tightest shoaling species, always out in groups where as other species may split up much more.

If you want Rocket pencilfish, a group of 8-9 again is better. I have a dozen in my 40g flooded Amazon blackwater tank, and they spawn regularly; most of the eggs which are laid on the undersurface of leaves get found and eaten, but that's OK, the fish are obviously well settled. But they can be very skittish in small numbers or open water, and these too absolutely must have the floating plants I mentioned above. I have found Water Sprite the best for them, as they love spending hours cruising among the dangling tangled mass of roots from this plant. I'll attach of photo of this tank to illustrate what you want to aim for with all these fish as they come from the same water habitat type (except the pandas); if you look carefully you can see a couple of the rockets among the roots but they are well camouflaged.

 

[Jacob Ingram]

All awesome! Would increasing these numbers overstock the tank, though? If there are good ways to maintain the tank that wouldn't cause any distress I'll do that, but I don't want to take on too high of a load for my lil 20 gal. If I need to limit species and go for JUST the corys and the rasboras, but if I can handle corys, hatchetfish, and the rasboras, ill do that. All the same to me! Just want to maximize the fish in tank while ensuring their safety and comfort.