Help With First Tank

[curlyriff]

Hey everyone,

I have previously posted this in the hello section with a big hey to everyone out there but only had 1 response to any questions so thought I would post it here to hopefully get some more help.

Please find below my first ever tank and questions I have to get going.

Hopefully with all your knowledge I can get a really good little nano tank up and running.

I have just brought myself a new Fluval Edge 23ltr (6 gallon)and this is my first tank so am learning all the basics at the same time, I have set up a simple arrangement with a few rocks and plants (only plastic at moment). Although these will be changed later to proper planets in the next week or so (depending on the light situation).

I am just wondering what I should look out for in regards to looking after, cleaning the tank etc...

I have no idea what fish I am going to put in the tank at the moment and it appears that around 6-8 fish is the ideal amount but depends on what I go for.

I just want a few fish i.e a Siamese fighting fish 1x male with a shoal of fish that are bright and coloured for the tank. Was thinking something like neon tetra, zebra danios or Galaxy Rasbora?

Although I have also looked at Kuhli Loach & African Dwarf Frog which look interesting and will be something different for my first tank and are bottom feeders so may help clean the tank at same time.

None seem to be super difficult to look after so shouldn't have a problem there but I don't know if these would be OK in the same tank with the right numbers.

I know that I shouldn't get more than one male Siamese fighting fish and if I have females as well it is recommended to have at least two together in the same tank due their nature which means I couldn't have any other fish and in the end they will have to be moved to a friends tank when larger.

Would a selection of the above be too much for this size tank? I was thinking of a of one of the Danios/Tetra(say 6x type) plus the male Siamese fighting fish total.

Based on the fish above I would need to keep my tank around 24-26 degrees C for them to be happy.Or a combination that includes either the Kuhli Loach or African Dwarf Frog would be interesting although some people say they will be OK and others say not.

Also people seem to be saying that the lights that come standard are not that bright and at the same time run hot so evaporate the water due their location in the tank. Is there an alternative that I can use that would both produce better lighting while not heating the water up to the point that it is evaporating at such a high rate? Ideally something that is a direct replacement would be best but if I need to do a little DIY to install this shouldn't be a problem.

I also mentioned at the top of the post (should you have managed to read this far! ) some are saying the light's are not good enough to keep the plants alive?Should this make any difference to my choice/type of plant that I would like to have in the tank?

Plants themselves I have no idea on and what I should be looking at I would like to have about 3/4 little plants at the front with 2/3 mediaum to larger plants at the back in referance to the tank size.

I haven't got a heater yet as I am not sure what to go for. Allot of people are having problems with the specific heater that is designed for this and I don't want anything that stands out or is too small to heat the tank suitably. Any advise would be appreciated. I did find a Interpet Deltatherm Heater for a good price (£8.00) but not sure if this is any good.

I am aware about the cycle period and just looking for ideas. I will do a fishless cycle.

Sorry for all the questions but hope to learn and make the most out of this great little tank.

Thank you for any help.

Kind Regards,

Adam

 

[waterdrop]

Hi Adam and Welcome to the freshwater beginners section!

I regard the Hello section as just a place for a single hello post and don't cruise there to answer questions as usually our beginners section here is where we get down to work, so hopefully you've found the right place, although...

I'm not at all up on the latest hobbyist-tricks for the Fluval Edge. I'm aware that there are several successful users of these tanks here on TFF but I don't know if any of them are still regularly keeping an eye out in our beginners section here. It might help to put a short post in the main discussion section asking for any Edge users to please drop by and check your thread here.

I believe I remember hearing some of the same things you mention, about some people changing lights and needing to figure out the right heater and perhaps how to modify the filter or what replacement filter to use.

I do feel you will want a "real" heater, with a thermostat, not one of those little heaters that just puts out a little heat with no set-point equipment. For one thing, you will want to maintain 29C/84C during the months of the fishless cycle and that's pretty warm! (Interestingly, the fishless cycle goes better with lights out, so that gives you more time to figure out the lighting changes you want to make.

Speaking of sequencing and time, it seems then that you should indeed focus on finding the right heater (seems like a 50w heater might be right for a 6g/23L but someone might want to correct me on that) and figuring out whether you want to go with the stock media that have come with the filter or whether you want to change the media or even the filter. While you are figuring out the filter and heater you should also be obtaining your liquid-reagent test kit and starting the search for the right type of household ammonia (the members can help with both.)

Then, once the filter and heater are ready and you have your test kit and ammonia, you should start the fishless cycle as soon as possible. Since the fishless cycle can take months, you want it to be proceeding while you seek answers about the lighting and learn the basics of tank maintenance you'll be doing after the cycle (you'll need a gravel-cleaning siphon for one thing and the type may matter in the tight confines of the Fluval Edge.) And of course during the cycling is when you begin to learn the black art of creating a stocking plan (I know you've already asked questions but there are plenty of members who should want to help with that aspect and you should have plenty of time for it. Oh, and don't forget to get an aquarium notebook and keep a detailed diary. It will be invaluable to you later. Good luck!

~~waterdrop~~

 

[curlyriff]

Thank you Waterdrop for the reply.

I will make sure I let people know I am here in need of help from other Edge owners.

I have found a few real heaters and have mentioned them in the DIY section as one may need some although the other is a standard. I was looking at a 50 watt so that is alright there. The choice at moment is either the AquaEl Neoheater cause it is pretty small and seems to have good quality design with all the required features and I can really turn up the heat to speed up the cycle period.

I have just brought the API Freshwater Master Test Kit. And I am going to pop into boots to get the household ammonia as that seems to be the right stuff.

I did read it worsk better to stop algy growing due to the high ammounts of ammonia used so I will do this once I get it started this weekend.

I don't know how much ammonia I should put into a 23ltr tank but I am sure it says somewhere online the recommend amounts for cycling. I haven't read all the details about it yet as I haven't got the stuff for it.

I don't know what the different options there is around the media and what difference this will make. Is there any reason why I should look at replacing the stock media? Does the different media suit certian types of fish for instance. I have looked at the filter itself and its maximum flow rate is 100gph and minimum is 33gph at 3600rpm so I would thought that this would be good enough for the tank of this size or even a larger tank.

Most people seem to suggest that my cycle will take about 4/6 weeks but I am in no rush so don't really mind and certainly don't want to start killing off fish.

I believe there is a special designed net and vacuum for the tank which look alright and not too pricy so will most likely give them a go.

I will certianly get a notebook over the weekend.

Thanks again.

Kind Regards,

Adam

 

[OldMan47]

Sorry you didn't get more answers there Adam.
I just visited that thread and lots of other members chimed in with ideas but it seems I am the only one who actually listed each question with an answer for you. We all try our best here but some of our members are not very experienced so they will answer, as I would really wish, with only those things that they really understand. This is a much more lively part of the forum that the welcome center so maybe we can help you more here.

 

[waterdrop]

The Boots will probably say its 9.5% ammonia and you can plug the percentage in to our calculator (you should find a "calculator" menu item near the TFF header) to get the number of milliliters (which reminds me, you'll want to pick up at least two graduated syringes to make moving small, measured amounts of liquids easy and you want one to stay "ammonia only.") that *should* bring the tank to the right concentration. But in practice its better to see what the calculator amount is and then try to dose a tiny bit lower than that and then test your way into just the right range. Actually, 4ppm is fine to start out with and that's a straight color match to the kit. The 5ppm is only really important at the very end of fishless cycling.

For the filter I was trying to remember whether the Edge ones have any "Zeolite" in them, but I kind of think they don't. That was my main worry and also that carbon is not really needed.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Katty]

I'll try my best to answer some of your questions. I'm not an expert but hopefully my 2 cents can help you out a little bit. I hope everyone doesn't mind the formatting I did. I wanted to make sure I didn't miss any questions and that you knew what I was referring to.

I just want a few fish i.e a Siamese fighting fish 1x male with a shoal of fish that are bright and coloured for the tank. Was thinking something like neon tetra, zebra danios or Galaxy Rasbora?
Neons could be a good choice, some people say they like an "aged" tank, others don't. I have had no problems adding their cousin the "green neon tetra" to a newly cycled tank in any case. Bettas need to breathe air though so you can't fill the tank all the way to the top like you're "supposed" to. Zebra danios are pretty active so 6g is probably too small for them. Galaxy rasboras seem to be a good choice for a small tank. If you get small fish you might need to rig a sponge around the filter intake so they don't get sucked up.

Although I have also looked at Kuhli Loach & African Dwarf Frog which look interesting and will be something different for my first tank and are bottom feeders so may help clean the tank at same time.
I don't know too much about the loach or the frog, but if you are interested in bottom feeders you might want to take a look at dwarf corydoras (corydoras hastatus). I'd go with at least 4 corydoras, maybe more depending on how much you like them and what else is in there. I think loaches might need 10+ gallons but someone might correct me on that(?)

None seem to be super difficult to look after so shouldn't have a problem there but I don't know if these would be OK in the same tank with the right numbers.
All the fish you're interested seem like good beginner fish at the least.

I know that I shouldn't get more than one male Siamese fighting fish and if I have females as well it is recommended to have at least two together in the same tank due their nature which means I couldn't have any other fish and in the end they will have to be moved to a friends tank when larger.
If you put a betta in there, do not put multiple bettas, even females.

Would a selection of the above be too much for this size tank? I was thinking of a of one of the Danios/Tetra(say 6x type) plus the male Siamese fighting fish total.
Small tetras or the galaxy rasboras sound good. As I said above I don't think the danios are suited to that size tank.

Based on the fish above I would need to keep my tank around 24-26 degrees C for them to be happy.Or a combination that includes either the Kuhli Loach or African Dwarf Frog would be interesting although some people say they will be OK and others say not.
As I said above, not too sure if the loach would be best in that size tank. Are you really interested in frogs? If you are I'm sure there's ways to make it work for everything in there but if you're not too keen on frogs it would be easier to pick something that you'll be more sure with.

Also people seem to be saying that the lights that come standard are not that bright and at the same time run hot so evaporate the water due their location in the tank. Is there an alternative that I can use that would both produce better lighting while not heating the water up to the point that it is evaporating at such a high rate? Ideally something that is a direct replacement would be best but if I need to do a little DIY to install this shouldn't be a problem.
I'm not too familiar with the light setup in the fluval edge. You might be able to cram some LED lights in there somehow or something though... I dunno.

I also mentioned at the top of the post (should you have managed to read this far! ) some are saying the light's are not good enough to keep the plants alive?Should this make any difference to my choice/type of plant that I would like to have in the tank?
Yes, the lights in the fluval edge aren't too strong and the light is limited to around the center. Java fern, anubias, java (or other types of) moss, cryptocoryne and marimo moss balls should all do fine with the amount of light in there. A warning on the crypts though, they may melt when first put in your tank and look completely dead after a while. Just leave it alone and remove the mushy leaves and it'll come back just fine after a month or two.


Plants themselves I have no idea on and what I should be looking at I would like to have about 3/4 little plants at the front with 2/3 mediaum to larger plants at the back in referance to the tank size.
Based on my ideas above, java fern, anubias, and crypts towards the back. Moss towards the front. You can even make a carpet of moss or coat rocks and caves with moss.

I haven't got a heater yet as I am not sure what to go for. Allot of people are having problems with the specific heater that is designed for this and I don't want anything that stands out or is too small to heat the tank suitably. Any advise would be appreciated. I did find a Interpet Deltatherm Heater for a good price (£8.00) but not sure if this is any good.
Look for a heater between 25-50 watts and an adjustable knob. It doesn't matter if the heater has numbers on the knob because the numbers are usually discombobulated anyways.

Annnyways, for stocking my opinion is:
1 betta
6 neon tetra OR 7 galaxy rasboras OR 4-6 dwarf cories

Or maybe a combination of neons and/or rasboras and/or cories

If you go with bettas don't pick a betta that flares at everything in sight.

 

[Katty]

Also last I saw, the fluval edge filter is just a relabeled Hagen AquaClear 20. I have two of those filter and I love them. They give you room to move stuff around if you need to. They come with a sponge pad, a pack of activated carbon, and ceramic pieces for bacteria and a bag to put the ceramic in. All the media goes in a basket so you're free to replace things like the carbon with another sponge or ceramic pieces or peat moss or something.

 

[curlyriff]

Sorry you didn't get more answers there Adam.
I just visited that thread and lots of other members chimed in with ideas but it seems I am the only one who actually listed each question with an answer for you. We all try our best here but some of our members are not very experienced so they will answer, as I would really wish, with only those things that they really understand. This is a much more lively part of the forum that the welcome center so maybe we can help you more here.

That's alright. It was in the wrong section as has been pointed out so I thought I would post here as it seems to suite it beter and people are giving me a few more things to think about and how to go about it.

Katty,

Thank you for your response. The information you have given has helped.

I have already been told about the Betta so that I am leaving for now and just want to get some of the small fish listed with some bottom feeders.

I am not that fused about the frog.Just something different thats all.

Some other forums and alot of people with the edge if you just search online suggest the loach and I like the looks of them as long as they will be OK. Would be good to hear other opinions on that though.

I haven't seen the dwarf corydoras corydoras hastatus but will look into them so thanks for the suggestion.

Waterdrop,

Thanks I will remember to get some syringes and make sure they are labelled accodingly.

Why shouldn't I have the carbon and what does "Zeolite" do. Should I switch out my carbon for something else?

Thanks for all the help so far. If I haven't replied to your exact answers I have read them and taken on board but it is most likely I have to put some thought into it or just agree.

Kind Regards,

Adam

 

[curlyriff]

I have been trying to find where to get smome syringes and needles from but I can't.

I googled and people are saying you can't get them over counter in UK. Do i just pick some up off ebay and if so what size/type am I looking for?

Thanks again.

Adam

 

[tanksalot]

For simply measuring liquids, you don't need one with a needle. I use an oral syringe, and they are freely available on the net, and from Boots I would imagine (I got mine from Amazon). Just make sure it has the calibration you require.

ETA mine measures up to 5ml, but they come in bigger sizes too.

 

[Essjay]

I got my syringe from Lloyds, they're called babies' medicine dosing syringes. Don't ask for just a syringe or you'll get very funny looks - that's what happened to me . Mine is 1ml, graduated in 1/100 ml, very useful for adding meds etc to small tanks. They have them in larger sizes too. If Lloyds sell them, Boots should too. Just don't forget the babies' med dosing bit.........

 

[curlyriff]

Thanks tanksalot & essjay,

I will go on the hunt at lunch time to see what I can find etc...and I won't forget the babies medicine dosing syringes comment when i ask

 

[sparkycufc]

Kuhli Loach need somewhere to hide if you are going to have them in your tank, they are shy, very shy, in fact if you want them to look at you might be very disappointed. I have Kuhlis and find that part of the joy of them is spotting them meandering about between the stones and plants looking for food. I ofetn see them darting for cover when I turn the lights on in the morning.

Galaxy Rasbora are absolutely beautiful little fish, stunning, once they have settled in their colours and patterning really begin to show up. I would recommend them for any tank but especially if you are going to have a smaller tank with less fish. They are very active and really playful around feeding time, they would definitely be my choice.

 

[waterdrop]

Many freshwater aquarists choose not to use carbon (aka activated charcoal) on a regular basis but to have some set aside in their cabinet. The reason is simple. Carbon is an optimal chemical media, but not optimal for biological or mechanical filtration necessarily. As a chemical media it is great at removing medications after they have run their course, at pulling out some of the tea-colored tannins from new wood and at removing the occasional organic odor of unknown origin. But carbon is expensive to run - it only does its works for about 3 days max and then should be removed, tossed in the trash and replaced with fresh carbon - this is too expensive for most aquarists to do constantly. Aquarists who do not change it out weekly are just filtering with used-up rocks, which wouldn't be doing much but a little debris catching.

As a biological filtration medium, carbon is decent, has more surface area than many things and will be colonized by bacteria, but its not optimal because it constantly crumbles and breaks down, allowing bacterial colonies to be carried out with filter cleanings. By contrast, sponge and ceramics retain their integrity much longer and are more optimal biomedia. The same issues are leveled at carbon for mechanical filtration, a bed of ceramic (sometimes labeled as sintered glass) media will have better mechanical properties (not get clogged up quite as fast) and will last longer I believe. But for mechanical its a pretty subtle difference.

Zeolite is a completely different chemical resin. Its a little less common but is definately out there on LFS shelves. Sometimes it appears as a white gravel shape, smaller in size than the typical carbon size of crush. Zeolite can be seem a little complicated to explain to some beginners. Its a powerful chemical resin that is so effective at removing ammonia that it can reduce even trace ammonia in the tank. To the rank beginner this seems great! But the experienced aquarist immediately worries about his bacteria, how will they be fed? And that is indeed the problem, especially for cycling filters, the zeolite -can- (not always, but often) create a situation where the autotrophic bacteria can't grow. The complication comes in explaining that the -really- experienced aquarists have found that with careful placement of just the right amount of a zeolite or zeolite-like compound (usually -after- the biomedia in the filter flow path) the substance can help clean up the last traces of ammonia that the bacteria don't eat and thus rob the algae of this triggering substance! So it has a legitimate place of utility for planted tank enthusiasts. I don't recommend it for beginners but it would be incorrect for them to think of it as bad in a blanket way.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[curlyriff]

Thanks for the input on the fish sparkycufc.

I was wondering about that but hoped they would be active enough to be seen occasionally such as feeding for instance.

At the moment I am swaying towards the Galaxy Rasbora as they seem to be slightler smaller and I may be able to about 10 in a group instead of 6.

And waterdrop,

Thanks again for your input. It appears I should just get rid of my carbon I wouldn't be able to sustain it due to costs. I don't think I will be touching Zeolite at least any time soon as I am only just about to start the cycle and this doesn't soon too clever if it removes the ammonia I want to put in.

Since the Fluval Edge comes with foam, Biomax & Carbon Clean & Clear what I should I run instead?

Is there anything recommended to use as replacements over the two already mentioned. It is around £4.69 for 3 carbon clean and Clear sachets which at 1 a week is costly.

Thakns for all the help so far and if anyone has any idea on the heaters please let me know as I would ike to order one tomorrow to start the cycle monday(ish).

I managed to get both the ammonia and the syringe at lunch today so that is alrught. The test kit as I said is ordered and on it's way so should be here monday.

So all in all I am getting there. I am going to pick up the algy cleaner, net & gravel cleaner that Fluval have as well at the weekend.

I want to slow my waterfall part of the filter down as it causes bubbles to be prodcued when it pours into the tank and was thinking some kind of foam but would this cause any problems with the water cycling out etc.. It isn't too bad when turned down so could probably live with it like that just wondered.

Kind Regards,

Adam