Help with diagnosing

[Alyssasunshine9]

Hello, I am new to this forum but need some help. I had a Siamese flying fox that died on Saturday morning and a lamp eye tetra that died tonight. I need help figuring out what killed them so I can prevent it from killing others. Tank includes 2 large blood parrots, 5 buenos Aires tetras, 4 lamp eye tetras, 6 neon tetras, 1 peacock eel. Water levels all stable nothing changed. Only difference is I feed frozen blood worms now since the peacock eel is the newest addition as of 2 weeks and the tetras have eaten blood worms but never saw the flying fox eat any. What do you think killed them?

 

[Alyssasunshine9]

Tank is 125 gallons established for 9 years. Had the blood parrots for 5 and recently added the tetras a month ago to help eat leftover food. Peacock most recent addition 2 weeks ago.

 

[Jessie J.]

How much do you feed them and what are your parameters?

 

[Alyssasunshine9]

Thanks for answering! I feed them once a day sometimes twice if they are swimming a lot and look hungry. The tetra did eat frozen blood worms for the first time about 2 weeks before it died, but the flying fox never ate the blood worms and he died first. I always spot clean any excess food that isn’t eaten. pH is between 6.4 and 6.6, ammonia 0, nitrite 0, nitrate 40. Always have issues with nitrates so I use nitrozorb and added four live anubia plants to control nitrates. The nitrates never seem to cause issues with my fish as they are constantly around 40 even after partial water changes. Temp always 80.

 

[Colin_T]

Hi and welcome to the forum

Have you checked your tap water for nitrates?
If you have high nitrates in the tank water, then it will keep the high level in the tank.

If the tap water has no nitrates, then you should do bigger water changes more often. I recommend doing a 75% water change and gravel cleaning the substrate once a week. If your tap water has no nitrates and a weekly water change does not reduce the nitrates, then do it 2 times a week.
Make sure any new water is free of chlorine/ chloramine before it is added to the tank.

Clean the filter if it hasn't been done in the last 2 weeks. Established filters should be cleaned at least once a month and preferably ever y 2 weeks. Wash filter materials in a bucket of tank water.

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Anubias is useless for absorbing nutrients out of the water. It is a marsh plant that grows very slowly under water and as such it absorbs virtually nothing from the water.

Water Sprite (Ceratopteris thalictroides/ cornuta) and other floating plants like Duckweed will grow much faster ad use a lot more nutrients (nitrates) than plants growing in the gravel. If you get too much Water Sprite, you can plant some of it in the gravel where it will grow into a nice light green shrub.

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The fish in the pictures appear to have a bacterial infection. This might have been introduced with the eel or it might be from too much gunk building up in the tank, gravel and filter and the eel and frozen bloodworms made the problem worse.

Wipe the inside of the glass and clean the filter if it hasn't been done in the last 2 weeks. Then do a 75% water change and gravel clean the substrate each day for a week. See how the fish look after that.

If you can post pictures of the fish in the tank, I can check them for spots or marks that might indicate other health issues.

If any more fish die, post a pic asap and we will look into a medication for the tank. However, try big daily water changes for a week and see how they look after that.

 

[Alyssasunshine9]

Thank you so much for the info Colin I really appreciate it. I checked my tap water for nitrates and there were none. I cleaned the filter, recharged the nitrozorb, and did a big water change with gravel cleaning and wiped the glass down! (I’ve been doing 25% water changes 2x a week since this started). I will try and find some water sprite at my local fish stores and add that to try and tackle the nitrate problem. On Saturday morning a Buenos Aires tetra died and looked the same as the other two. I’m hoping the daily water changes and gravel cleaning will fix this but if not I would appreciate a recommendation on medication. I can buy a hospital tank as well since I know the peacock eel is pretty sensitive to medications especially with copper.

 

[Alyssasunshine9]

 

[Colin_T]

25% water changes don't do much. You are better off doing a 50% + water change so it dilutes the nutrients by half or more.

Is the API Nitra-zorb what you use in the filter?
If yes I have my concerns about it having misleading advertising. The website claims it removes ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. If it removed ammonia, there wouldn't be any nitrite or nitrate. This is because the filter bacteria normally convert ammonia into nitrite and nitrite into nitrate. If you get rid of the ammonia there is nothing to convert into nitrite or nitrate.

I don't think you really need this product and a normal healthy biological filter will readily convert ammonia into nitrite and nitrate and then you do water changes to remove the nitrates. However, since you have the product you could continue to use it to help keep nitrates low but you should recharge it each week, and it's still a good idea to do a 50-75% water change each week to remove nutrients and disease organisms that build up.

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Triple Sulpha, Tri Sulfa or any other the sulphur based medications are safe for eels, loaches & catfish, and they treat bacteria, fungus and protozoan infections. They generally don't wipe out the filter bacteria, which is a plus. However, it's still a good idea to monitor ammonia and nitrite levels when using any medication. Just to make sure the filter bacteria don't get killed.

Waterlife Myxazin is safe for scaleless fishes like eels.

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To work out the volume of water in the tank:
measure length x width x height in cm.
divide by 1000.
= volume in litres.
When you measure the height, measure from the top of the substrate to the top of the water level.

There is a calculator/ converter in the "How To Tips" at the top of this page that will let you convert litres to gallons if you need it.

Remove carbon from the filter before treating or it will absorb the medication and stop it working.
I am not sure if the Nitra-zorb removes medications but it's probably a good idea to remove that during treatment too.

Wipe the inside of the glass down, do a 75% water change and complete gravel clean. And clean the filter before treating. Make sure any new water is free of chlorine/ chloramine before it is added to the tank.

Increase surface turbulence/ aeration when using medications because they reduce the dissolved oxygen in the water.

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If you haven't lost any fish during the last couple of days, and the fish are looking ok, hold off on the medication. But if one more dies, then treat the tank.

 

[Alyssasunshine9]

Today I did about 40% water change and immediately after the tank was crystal clear (it was clear even before doing the change) but now about 5 hours later my tank is cloudy white. My fish do not appear distressed at all but why would it turn so cloudy when it is so clean? There is no excess food or anything it’s completely clean. I just added some API stress zyme Incase I depleted too much of the bacteria/ biological filter from the excessive water changes. Any tips? Is this emergent? It’s been cloudy before from water changes but it normally occurs as a result of vacuuming gravel and then settles. This time was different as it was crystal clear before during and after cleaning, only to find it cloudy 4 hours later.

 

[Alyssasunshine9]

 

[Alyssasunshine9]

Also looking into buying some water sprite for my tank but it’s been pretty hard to find sellers! Going to a pond store in the am that has a lot of plants and hoping they have some. Thanks again for all the info! I’m just stressed because I have never done this many water changes in such a short time but I followed your advice! Is it possible to clean the tank too much and irradicate all the good bacteria?

 

[Colin_T]

Is it possible to clean the tank too much and irradicate all the good bacteria?

Yes but you have to wash everything with chlorinated tap water, including the filter materials, gravel, and change all the water.

Doing a big water change with dechlorinated water is not going to harm the filter bacteria because they live on hard surfaces like glass, gravel, filter sponges, etc. A small amount of filter bacteria is in the water but it is a tiny amount (1-2%) compared to what is in the filter and gravel.

You can change 90% of the tank water (using dechlorinated water) and do a gravel clean every day, and it will not affect the filter bacteria.

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The white cloudy water could be from something in the gravel that is released into the water or something in the filter. The NitraZorb might be releasing some white powder into the water, (assuming it is a white granule). Carbon can release a fine black powder into the water when it is new. To prevent this all granulated or powdered filter media should be rinsed under tap water to remove any fine dust.

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If you can't find Water Sprite at the pond shop, ring a few pet shops and ask them if they can order some in for you. The pond shop might be able to order it in for you too.

You will only need 1 plant and after a few weeks floating on the surface you will have lots of baby plants and within a few months you can remove, sell, give away or plant the surplus plants in the gravel.

Give any new plants a good rinse under the tap before putting them in the tank.

 

[Alyssasunshine9]

Woke up this morning with the tank crystal clear again. Called the pond store and he said that water sprite is not allowed in California. He recommended valceneriys plant. It isn’t a floating plant, so will it still help control my nitrates?

 

[Colin_T]

valceneriys plant

Is that the correct name for the plant, because I get nothing when I google it?

You could get Duckweed to float on the surface. It absorbs a lot of nutrients and grows quickly, and it's allowed in the state of California.

You could go for a drive interstate and pick up some water sprite. Just double bag it and stuff it under the seat. As long as you don't tell anyone you have it you will be fine. Or get little tiny plants and put them in a test tube in your pocket. That's how water lettuce made it to Australia.

screw you govment fellas, that's what you get for stopping us keeping nice plants.

 

[Alyssasunshine9]

Totally misspelled it!! vallisneria plant* I forgot to ask about duckweed I’ll ask when I get there this afternoon. HAHA screw the government I just want happy fishies! I saw water lettuce when I was researching plants it’s so pretty! I wonder if it’s CA approved