Help With Cycling

[Benunited]

Hey folks

So sorry if this kind of post has been posted a million times before but I'm confused by the huge amount of info on a variety of different sites.

I'm trying a fishless cycle with a 30 lites biorb tank.

Readings:

Ammonia: approx 5
Nitrate: off chart
Nitrite: off chart
GH: 4
KH: 0
PH 6.4
Cl: 0

I tried to start the cycle about a few weeks ago, trying to use the 'wait and see' method.

Very quickly the ammonia levels started to reach 5 or more and drop to 0 or near zero within a couple of days.

But two weeks ago the ammonia levels just stopped at around 5 and have never come down from that level. As you can see, the nitrate and nitrite levels are off the chart but none of the three levels seem to show any signs of coming down at all.

Can anyone provide some newbie/dummy level advice as to what to do?

Thanks so much!
Ben

 

[doresy]

Ph is at a level that could stall a cycle.......do you have bogwood in your tank?

 

[Benunited]

Ph is at a level that could stall a cycle.......do you have bogwood in your tank?

Hi Doresy

Only extra things in the tank are some fake plants and a 'cave'.

thanks

Ben

 

[drobbyb]

I agree, at pH 6.5 the bacs go dormant leaving you with ammonia that won't process. This is easy to fix however. I would do a waterchange to bring the levels back up, say 50% or better. Alternately, common baking soda can be used in a fishless cycle to raise your pH and buffer your water. If I were at home I could give you a link to follow for dosing. Start with a teaspoon and check your pH about an hour later. If it's still low, repeat the dose until you get a suitable pH.

 

[discus_lover]

your ammonia level is dangerous..now cycle your tank..do 50% water change in an alaternate day until it goes down....

 

[arobinson1984]

The ammonia levels are not dangerous as it's a fishless cycle! No fish in there to harm.

What is the PH Reading on your tap water?

Andy

 

[waterdrop]

Hi Benunited and welcome to TFF!

OK, three things:
1) The biorb tanks come usually come with an undergravel style filter relying on ceramic gravel as the biomedia but also having a "ring disk" containing a sponge and a supply of zeolite and carbon. The theory of putting some zeolite near the end of the water path in a filter is that the bacteria will still grow in the biomedia (it will see the ammonia first) and thus you can supposedly have fish while the tank is still cycling. In practice, we find this doesn't usually work right as the zeolite (being a resin that chemically removes ammonia) can be a little "too good" at removing all the food the bacteria need in order to grow. Since carbon is not need in there any more than zeolite is when you are preparing a filter properly by fishless cycling, like you are, then the recommendation would be to remove all of the carbon/zeolite in the disk and either replace it with sponge or ceramic gravel or just leave it empty.
2) From the list of test results you've given it appears you may be using paper test strips for your water testing. It appears the results they are giving are roughly reasonable, but in point of fact we don't really trust them here on TFF and always recommend that you invest in a liquid-reagen based master test kit. There are times when paper strips can be worse than useless as they can mislead and cause you to take the wrong action.
3) If you obtain liquid tests and they comfirm the KH=0 and pH at 6.5 or below then I agree with drobbyb that your fishless cycle would probably greatly benefit from obtaining a simple box of kitchen baking soda (make sure its not baking powder as this can contain other ingredients) and then dose your tank with one tablespoon (one tablespoon equals three teaspoons) of baking soda per 50L of tank water volume. Do this after doing a 90% water change and recharge of the ammonia.

You need to be aware that fishless cycling a very small volume like 30L and a difficult filter, like the undergravel bubbler and sponge disk design of the biorb may give you less satisfying feedback and take longer than some of the other fishless cycles reported on here where larger tanks and bigger filters are used, but if you stick to it you should eventually find success.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Benunited]

Hi Benunited and welcome to TFF!

OK, three things:
1) The biorb tanks come usually come with an undergravel style filter relying on ceramic gravel as the biomedia but also having a "ring disk" containing a sponge and a supply of zeolite and carbon. The theory of putting some zeolite near the end of the water path in a filter is that the bacteria will still grow in the biomedia (it will see the ammonia first) and thus you can supposedly have fish while the tank is still cycling. In practice, we find this doesn't usually work right as the zeolite (being a resin that chemically removes ammonia) can be a little "too good" at removing all the food the bacteria need in order to grow. Since carbon is not need in there any more than zeolite is when you are preparing a filter properly by fishless cycling, like you are, then the recommendation would be to remove all of the carbon/zeolite in the disk and either replace it with sponge or ceramic gravel or just leave it empty.
2) From the list of test results you've given it appears you may be using paper test strips for your water testing. It appears the results they are giving are roughly reasonable, but in point of fact we don't really trust them here on TFF and always recommend that you invest in a liquid-reagen based master test kit. There are times when paper strips can be worse than useless as they can mislead and cause you to take the wrong action.
3) If you obtain liquid tests and they comfirm the KH=0 and pH at 6.5 or below then I agree with drobbyb that your fishless cycle would probably greatly benefit from obtaining a simple box of kitchen baking soda (make sure its not baking powder as this can contain other ingredients) and then dose your tank with one tablespoon (one tablespoon equals three teaspoons) of baking soda per 50L of tank water volume. Do this after doing a 90% water change and recharge of the ammonia.

You need to be aware that fishless cycling a very small volume like 30L and a difficult filter, like the undergravel bubbler and sponge disk design of the biorb may give you less satisfying feedback and take longer than some of the other fishless cycles reported on here where larger tanks and bigger filters are used, but if you stick to it you should eventually find success.

~~waterdrop~~

Thanks!!!!

I'm on it - and will report back!

 

[Benunited]

Thanks folks!

Am trying out the advice above.

Unfortunately having probably added too much baking soda my ph is now above 9.

Anyone know if there's a particular way I should lower this to aid the fishless cylce?

I could add some of that liquid that's supposed to balance it at 7.5 but want to check first if this is what I should do.

Thanks in advance!

Ben

 

[Benunited]

Also meant to ask, having done the water change, at this point should I be adding anything to the tap water?

My tap chlorine levels are apparently zero anyway.

I'm sure everyone's advice is to add a de-chlorifying liquid prior to fish being added but not sure if I need to add anything at this stage of my fishless cycle.

Thanks again - all advice very much appreciated indeed.

Ben

 

[drobbyb]

To get the pH back down, simply perform a waterchange. Fifty percent would be a good amount to start with, and remember to top up your ammonia after the waterchange.

It's still important to use a good quality dechlorinator since they do more than remove chlorine. They usually detoxify heavy metals and some, like Prime, will detoxify ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate.

Edit to add my link on dosing with baking soda. The calculator can be found here.

 

[discus_lover]

for ph level problem,in my blog i wrote an artile about it..you may check it...
http/discusfishcaresecrets.blogspot.com/...r-aquarium.html

 

[Benunited]

Hi folks

Thanks for all the advice.

It's been a case of it feeling like 'so near, but so far' since I last posted.

Take the last few days:

Day 1:
Ammonia level 0
Nitrite level 0 (great!)
PH: 7.5

Day 2:
Ammonia level 0
Nitrite level 2
PH: 5
*Added bicarbonate

Day 3:
Ammonia level 0
Nitrite level 0 (great!)
PH 7.5

Day 4:
Ammonia level 0
Nitrite level 0 (great)
PH: 7
*Based on experiences added a touch of bicarbonate in case PH dropped further

Today:
Ammonia level 0
Nitrite level 3 (how)
PH: 5.5

Is this because the PH level has fallen? Has that stalled my cycle?

I had hoped I was 2 days into a week's worth of nitrite levels of 0 so I could finally add fish.

Now I'm back to day 0?

Thanks for all advice!

Ben

 

[drobbyb]

At 5.5 your bacteria are mostly dormant and not processing ammonia or nitrite and are in dange of dying off. You need a large waterchange and soon!

 

[waterdrop]

Hi there Benunited!

Looking back over the thread its not clear to me that you've been adding pure household ammonia each time the ammonia drops back down to zero ppm from the previous dosing of 4 to 5ppm of ammonia. I'm worried we're all just *assuming* you're doing that, which is documented in our "Fishless Cycling" Add&Wait method article by rdd1952 in the Beginners Resource Center. You are actually *adding* pure ammonia aren't you?

~~waterdrop~~