Help with 80g Malawi tank

[nuprin]

Hi everyone!

i'm new to this forum, but have been keeping my africans for almost four years now. i have an 80g with 2 penguin 330s and crushed coral as substrate. i have about 15 1-4" mbuna, one 4" red empress, one albino bristlenose catfish, and one pl*co. i keep the temp at 83 and do weekly 40% water changes and add seachem's "cichlid salts" about once a month.

here's my problem: i just moved about a month ago. my old tap came out at pH=9.0, so i always added seachem's neutral regulator when i did water changes. the coral kept the pH from changing much. i figured the coral would continue to set the pH in the tank, but lately i've noticed my fish stressed out and hovering at the right sided bottom of the tank. i did a test strip, and i got through the roof nitrates (that don't seem to change with water changes), no nitrites, hardness of about 100, KH of 180, and pH of 7.2!!! when i did test strips the first couple of weeks, nitrates were still high (i was beginning to think the strips were suspect until i tried the tap), but the pH was a happy 8.2 still. i was shocked to see the pH so low, as i'd assumed that the coral would always take care of it. is it possible that i've put so much neutral regulator in the tank over the past year and a half (with water changes) that it's built up and is now keeping the water at neutral? my tap comes out here at 7.0.

also, they're stressed out for part of the day, and sometimes they seem fine!

questions:
1) what's going on here with the pH? is it the neutral regulator (which, of course, i have stopped adding since i moved)? what should i do to rectify this?

2) i'm about to go buy some baking soda to add as a buffer. is there a particular kind i should get or avoid? how much is safe to put in right now? did the crushed coral stop working or reach a max dissolution or something?

3) what is going on with the nitrates? something i can do about that? i went and bought a plant today as a panic response. they're in a better mood now and have started eating the plant. i put in some romaine to distract them.

4) about the plant: is there a procedure for me to wash the plant or something before putting it in? i rinsed it several times and then buried the pot in the gravel (have no idea what kind of plant this is). i also bought those "bulbs in a package" things with some type of lilie or something. they're guaranteed to grow 3-5" in 20 days. are these things okay to put in the tank?

5) more about the plant: i caught a hitchhiker with the plant--a little aquatic frog. i think it's a dwarf, but you know how they mislabel those things. it's tiny and there's no way i'll be able to catch it now bc it's hiding under the rockwork. is this okay? is he just gonna be lunch for someone?

6) i've never been able to raise any haps. they all seem to die except for my red empress (knock on wood). is this bc they're not aggressive enough? which leads me to my last question:

7) i recently lost my two 1" obliquidens with this pH shock (i think). one floated to the top but i can't seem to find the other. ammonia and nitrites are still fine, so i don't think it's rotting anywhere. eaten?

Sorry for this long involved message as my first post. i'd really appreciate your help and input as i've never had a problem like this and this has me stumped.

thanks!!!

 

[thecichlidaddict]

Hey Nuprin

Unfortunately I don't have answers to most of your questions, water chemistry is not really my forte, I tend to use the water as it is without any problems. As far as baking soda is concerned though, regular untreated BS of any brand will do the job.

Unfortunately a couple of plants won't do much for the nitrates, it takes quite a few of them to make any difference. High nitrates are a sign of something polluting the tank, and missing fish may be a part of it. Dead fish will get eaten, but they get slowlly picked a part. It is possible that your bio-filter has increased quickly enough to prevent an ammonia or nitrite spike, but nitrates may still be effected. This is all I can think of - you obviously seem to maintain the tank, and if overfeeding was the cause you would have run into this problem earlier I'm sure. have you tested the tap water for nitrates?

As far as the haps go this may very well have to do with the fact that you have a tank full of mbuna, which is not a desirable place to raise haps. Now that the Red Empress is as large as the larges mbuna he should be ok, but he's still only half grown. They're pretty resilient fish anyway.

 

[Exiled]

Yeah, Nuprin---definatly check your tap water for nitrates -- that was my first thought when you said that water changes aren't lowering the nitrate results.
If your tap water itself is high in nitrates---whoa nelly, I don't what to tell you there. I guess you'll have to do some research on the capabilities of some water purifiers that attach to the faucet head.

As for baking soda -- Arm and Hammer is fine..... and I have found that one teaspoon (use a cooking measuring spoon) per 10 gallons , will bring water at a pH of 7.0 to 8.3. Make sure you figure the exact volume of water in your tank minus all the gravel and rocks etc. Here a good online volume calculator that takes contents of the tank into account: http/www.garf.org/calculators/TankVolume...eCalculator.asp
When you figure how much you'll need to add, do it over the course of 2 or 3 days, very gradually.

Those lilly bulbs are fine. But they need good lighting to grow as fast as said on the package. I've seen nice cichlid tanks with them--the fish don't eat it either.

And I think Kermit is gonna be lunch someday. Hopefully you can catch him and give him a little house of his own. Make a little trap for him, put froggy food in it


Good luck, keep us posted

 

[nuprin]

thanks for all your suggestions! i did check the tap for nitrates, but it came out at zero. that's what i thought at first (or that something was wrong with the strips). how quickly is it okay to increase the tap now that they're already kinda in pH shock? i just wanna know how much baking soda to add per day until i get where i want.

oh, i was also wondering how to do water changes to help this nitrate issue: about 20% per day once i get this pH thing solved? do you think i should add "algae killer" stuff, which, i think, is a nitrate removed? get duck weed?

as for the dead fish, i have no idea where it went! i moved all the rockwork around and can't find a carcass anywhere. maybe it's just bits and pieces hidden in there.

Kermit is hanging out directly underneath the albino bristlenose, who's pretty much left alone all the time. Funny how he found a safe spot right away. Do they ever need to come to the surface?

thanks again!

e

 

[Exiled]

i just wanna know how much baking soda to add per day until i get where i want.

fisrt calculate how many gallons of water is actually in the tank. then divide the gallons by ten. That's how many teaspoons total you will add of baking soda. Let's say you need to add 6 teaspoons.... add 3 teaspoons today and 3 tomorrow. When you do your water changes to keep that nitrate in check, figure exactly how much water you are taking out every time (measure out 20 gallons or so and make a little mark on the outside of the tank to let you know when to stop draining) and replenish the baking soda for that amount of water you are replacing every time.

 

[nuprin]

is baking it necessary? i read on a few sites that if you don't, the pH will lower...

 

[Exiled]

is baking it necessary? i read on a few sites that if you don't, the pH will lower...

Baking it? I don't think your tank will fit in an oven

You mean is baking soda necessary? If your tap water pH is 7.0, you will need to raise the pH as well as buffer the water, and that's what sodium bicarbonate does. The by-products of the beneficial bacteria acidify the water, so you'll need to buffer the water in some way to keep the pH stable. Baking soda, and having crushed coral in your mechanical filter or as a substrate accomplishes that.

 

[nuprin]

that's funny! no, for real, there are a bunch of websites that say in order to use baking soda, you need to bake it in the oven at 400 degrees and then mix it with regular baking soda. weird, huh? it's supposed to get all clumpy, but i did it for two hours just to try it and it came out looking the same.

the fish seemed much happier today! there were periods of weirdness, which i can only interpret as temporary pH fluctuations, but the baking soda and teaspoon of epsom salts really cheered them up. i'm gonna take the pH in the morning and see. hte water is kinda cloudy now, though. and the missing fish's fragments finally attached themselves to my power filter, so I was able to remove them! hopefully, the ocnditions in my tank will be more stable. oh, i also added two teaspoons of amquel. i had no idea that worked on nitrates, too, but i wanted to make sure there was no NH4 or nitrite spike with the exposed dead fish.

and i bought some food, bc i wanted to give them more variety. any opinions on the hikari stuff with the picture of an african on the front? i had been using this great, fill-your-own-container-with-your-own-mix food, but that store closed down and I don't know where to get it anymore. so i started using "african cichlid attack!" and some spirulina disks with occasional shrimp pellets.

anyway, thanks so much for your help! i'll keep you posted on tomorrow's progress. the way it seems now, i think they'll be okay. knock on wood.

 

[thecichlidaddict]

Hey Nuprin

I highly recommend that you add spirulina flake to the diet of your fish and keep the cichlid attack, which is designed for the more predatory Africans, to a minimum.

 

[Exiled]

Wow.....I've never heard of having to actually bake the baking soda. That sounds completely unnecessary. It works fine without applying heat to it.

What's "African Cichlid Attack" ?

 

[nuprin]

yeah, there were like 5 or 6 websites with specific instructions on how to bake the baking soda to drive off CO2 and water (or something). maybe that's something important with reef tanks or something.

i used a little of the baked stuff with regular baking soda, three tsp the first day, and then i did a water change and added 1 more. i think the pH is normalized now at 8.2. nitrates, however, are still up the roof. the fish seem much happier now, though from time to time they hover in the corner again. it's weird. my water was kinda cloudy yesterday but it's clear today.

i also added a spirulina flake along with the hikari stuff and Attack! (it's a product by HBH and is one of two specifically african cichlid formulas available at pet smart.) the hikari stuff has a disc shape and has a neat float and sink pattern which i like. my pl*co cleans up all the remnants that sink to the bottom and don't get eaten.

btw, i love my albino bristlen*se. it's still pretty small, but has been really hardy and seems happy no matter what. knock on wood.

oh, what do you guys think of adding duck weed to the tank? i'm still a little concerned with the nitrate level. i can't believe it's still a problem with my regular water changes. there must be something rotting there, but i vacuum under the rockwork every other week, too.

thanks again for all your help, guys! it's a little less scary to post here than it is to post to the yahoogroup. i've seen a few people attacked there, and you don't always get a response.

 

[Exiled]

I like duckweed. Does it grow in alkaline water though?

P.S. Did you ever catch Kermit?

 

[nuprin]

dunno about alkaline water. i'll ask the fishstore guy when i order it on monday. duckweed is so hard to find! i tried home depot and called like every store in town.

never found kermit. there are plenty of places to hide, including places the fishies can't get to, so he might yet live a while as long as enough food gets to him.

the tank looks fabulous now. i'm eternally grateful. i had called a couple of stores about the baking soda thing and they had either not heard of it or said it was dangerous. maybe they just wanted to sell more products.

oh, and i also read somewhere that the pH neutral stuff usually contains phosphates, which builds up in the tank and displaces carbonates. that's why the crushed coral wasn't working anymore.

what's the little blue and yellow guy on the right of your sig file? is that the maingano? beautiful.

 

[Exiled]

You went to Home Depot for duckweed? All I can say is--"Why?" DO people put that in their ponds and stuff? Try ebay--lots of live plant sales there.

The fishy on the right of my siggy pic is a Pseudotropheus elongatus yellow Usisya. Say that three times fast! Thanks--he's one of my absolute favorites in the tank.

 

[thecichlidaddict]

There are a number of easy to keep, weed-like plants that you can try.

Check this site out: http/www.tropica.com/default.asp