I meant just conditioner the current water some days if ammonia instead of changing lots of water every day
Help to start - first 30L tank
- Thread starter marklcfc
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ClownLurch
Fish Gatherer
Tank water goes into your fish bucket. Then onto your garden or outside plant pots as it’ll help em grow. NOT your inside plants!
Put the siphons big end into the tank, stand over your bucket, suck the small end while keeping an eye on the water level inside the tube. Once it rises enough point the end your sucking at the bucket.
Your lad will love doing this part by the way! Kids always do. Keep a fish only towel handy though!
This is the same bucket I use for when adding water to the tank? After removing the tank water from the bucket do I just leave the bucket as it is or rinse it? I’m guessing it’ll smell
No, water changes have to be done every day. Prime detoxifies ammonia and nitrite but only for 24 hours. After that they undetoxify again. So Prime keeps the fish safe between daily water changes, but water changes still have to be done.
There is a type of siphon which has a bulb in the tubing which you squeeze to start it. I've not used this type but you may find it easier.
Whichever you get, I suggest you practice using it first with a bucket of plain tap water either next to the sink or outside.
ClownLurch's point about an old towel is a good one. No matter how careful you are, some water will get spilled.
To go back a few posts
But of you mean Prime, no - only add enough to treat the amount of water. Enough to treat 30 litres when you set up the tank, and enough to treat the amount of water in the bucket for a water change.
There is a type of siphon which has a bulb in the tubing which you squeeze to start it. I've not used this type but you may find it easier.
Whichever you get, I suggest you practice using it first with a bucket of plain tap water either next to the sink or outside.
ClownLurch's point about an old towel is a good one. No matter how careful you are, some water will get spilled.
To go back a few posts
do you mean a whole bottle of Tetra Safe Start? If you do mean this, then yes, add the whole bottle.
But of you mean Prime, no - only add enough to treat the amount of water. Enough to treat 30 litres when you set up the tank, and enough to treat the amount of water in the bucket for a water change.
ClownLurch
Fish Gatherer
No.
The conditioner is to neutralise some chemicals in the tap water. If you add the correct amount they’ll be neutralised until you add more tap water.
15L is about 75% of a standard full builders bucket. By the way try to buy a strong white or yellow bucket from a proper builders merchants which will allow you to see what you’ve sucked out of the tank more easily. If you and your son get hooked on fishkeeping you may end up with baby fish, shrimps, snails, plants etc and they’re difficult to see in a black bucket as I know to my shame.
You can use the same bucket for taking the water out and putting the new water in or you can get 2 buckets and use one for water out and the other for water in.
When you've finished with the bucket or buckets, just leave them to drain and dry. Tank water should not smell unless there's something wrong with it.
Oh right the one thing I was advised by a friend that has a large tank and a lot of fish was that the seecham prime can neutralise the ammonia and nitrate in between water changes
ClownLurch
Fish Gatherer
Give it a quick rinse if you like.
Use your standard builders bucket to store all of the fish stuff you’ll initially be needing. Syphon, conditioner, towel etc for ease/speed of use, especially if you’re doing it every day which you will be.
Is there any way around doing water changes every day? Does the safe start cause the need for that?
I suppose I never expected all this work to be involved
No there isn't I'm afraid. Tetra Safe Start will shorten the length of time you need to do the water changes but despite what the blurb may say, it won't do things instantly.
It has occurred to me while I've just been making the bed that we may not have explained something properly, something we all know but forget that newcomers to the hobby may not know.
Water companies add something to our water to kill bacteria and make it safe for us to drink. They add either chlorine or chloramine. These don't harm us but they do harm fish, and they kill the beneficial bacteria that we need to grow. So we add a water conditioner to water that goes in a fish tank. These contain a dechlorinator which removes the chlorine or chloramine so the water does not harm fish or kill the beneficial bacteria. Water conditioner has to be added to any water that is put in the tank, whether that's the water used to fill the tank at the start or any water added later on.
But there is another issue, which is what this thread is mainly about - ammonia. This is fish's version of urine. Fish excrete ammonia 24 hours a day. It is made by fish in the tank, it doesn't come in with the water out of the tap. Ammonia is removed by good bacteria not something from a bottle and we have to grow these bacteria. Until the bacteria have grown enough of them, it is our job to remove the ammonia by doing water changes. Tetra Safe Start contains these bacteria but it takes them a while to settle in and get to work.
Many water conditioners have another chemical in them which detoxifies ammonia for 24 hours, and Prime has yet another chemical which detoxifies nitrite for 24 hours. But these only work for 24 hours so we have to do a water change to get rid of ammonia and nitrite then Prime in the new water detoxifies the ammonia made by the fish and the nitrite made from that ammonia during the next 24 hours. Then we do a water change to remove the ammonia and nitrite and the Prime in the new water detoxifies the ammonia and nitrite for 24 hours .........and on and on.
It has occurred to me while I've just been making the bed that we may not have explained something properly, something we all know but forget that newcomers to the hobby may not know.
Water companies add something to our water to kill bacteria and make it safe for us to drink. They add either chlorine or chloramine. These don't harm us but they do harm fish, and they kill the beneficial bacteria that we need to grow. So we add a water conditioner to water that goes in a fish tank. These contain a dechlorinator which removes the chlorine or chloramine so the water does not harm fish or kill the beneficial bacteria. Water conditioner has to be added to any water that is put in the tank, whether that's the water used to fill the tank at the start or any water added later on.
But there is another issue, which is what this thread is mainly about - ammonia. This is fish's version of urine. Fish excrete ammonia 24 hours a day. It is made by fish in the tank, it doesn't come in with the water out of the tap. Ammonia is removed by good bacteria not something from a bottle and we have to grow these bacteria. Until the bacteria have grown enough of them, it is our job to remove the ammonia by doing water changes. Tetra Safe Start contains these bacteria but it takes them a while to settle in and get to work.
Many water conditioners have another chemical in them which detoxifies ammonia for 24 hours, and Prime has yet another chemical which detoxifies nitrite for 24 hours. But these only work for 24 hours so we have to do a water change to get rid of ammonia and nitrite then Prime in the new water detoxifies the ammonia made by the fish and the nitrite made from that ammonia during the next 24 hours. Then we do a water change to remove the ammonia and nitrite and the Prime in the new water detoxifies the ammonia and nitrite for 24 hours .........and on and on.
Ok. How long does this process go on for?
How long is a piece of string?
There are so many variables that it is impossible to say. With Tetra Safe Start, perhaps a couple of weeks. Without it, it could take a couple of months.
Towards the end, ammonia and nitrite won't build up as fast so water changes won't need to be done every day, perhaps once every two or three days, then you'll realise that you haven't needed to do one for a week - that's when the tank is cycled and you only need to do weekly maintenance water changes.
There are so many variables that it is impossible to say. With Tetra Safe Start, perhaps a couple of weeks. Without it, it could take a couple of months.
Towards the end, ammonia and nitrite won't build up as fast so water changes won't need to be done every day, perhaps once every two or three days, then you'll realise that you haven't needed to do one for a week - that's when the tank is cycled and you only need to do weekly maintenance water changes.
I’ve found a way around it to delay it with my son and am prepared to try and get the tank ready properly using the cycle process. It seems overly stressful to get it ready quickly and not something I want right now with all the water changes especially when I’m new to all of this 
But as I’ve not done it before I’m still concerned about doing it wrong.
One thing I’m wondering is if I do the cycle and then the fish are in will it be easier for me in the long run and will it mean I don’t have to empty the water as much as if I didn’t do the cycle?
But as I’ve not done it before I’m still concerned about doing it wrong.
One thing I’m wondering is if I do the cycle and then the fish are in will it be easier for me in the long run and will it mean I don’t have to empty the water as much as if I didn’t do the cycle?
If you do a fishless cycle before you get fish, using ammonia from a bottle in place of the ammonia made by fish, you do not have to change any water while the tank cycles. But you have to do a big water change when it finishes before getting fish.
The bacteria we grow in the tank during cycling turn ammonia into nitrite and then into nitrate. Nitrate is not as poisonous as the other two but it still needs to be kept low. Fishless cycling makes a lot of nitrate so the water change at the end is done to get rid of that nitrate and get the level back to the same as tap water.
Once a tank is cycled, whether by using ammonia or by putting fish in straight away, we still have to change half the water once a week and clean the fish poop and any uneaten food out of the gravel as part of the water change. Nitrate is made during the week as well lots of other things that fish excrete which are dissolved in the water and these need to be removed.
Think of what your toilet would be like if it wasn't flushed regularly. That's what a fish tank would be like if we didn't do water changes. Water chnages are like flushing the toilet.
The bacteria we grow in the tank during cycling turn ammonia into nitrite and then into nitrate. Nitrate is not as poisonous as the other two but it still needs to be kept low. Fishless cycling makes a lot of nitrate so the water change at the end is done to get rid of that nitrate and get the level back to the same as tap water.
Once a tank is cycled, whether by using ammonia or by putting fish in straight away, we still have to change half the water once a week and clean the fish poop and any uneaten food out of the gravel as part of the water change. Nitrate is made during the week as well lots of other things that fish excrete which are dissolved in the water and these need to be removed.
Think of what your toilet would be like if it wasn't flushed regularly. That's what a fish tank would be like if we didn't do water changes. Water chnages are like flushing the toilet.
If I use this https://amzn.to/2U3bMiQ does anyone know how much I need to use for a 30 litre tank to get to 3ppm? I looked at the calculator but it mentions % of ammonia in solution which I don’t know?
also when it says
also when it says
How do I work that out?
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