HELP TIME SENSITIVE

[KOH119725]

Hi, I'm new here, my name is Katie.
I am a very new fish owner who has been very very lucky, but I think my luck is running out.
I have a ten gallon tank, Aqueon if it matters, with three Anubis plants, one fern looking plant, and a piece of driftwood along with the standard gravel etc.
The past few days my tank had a major die off. I had in the tank, three otocinclus, three adult Molly's and a young one. Also a minnow feeder fish (it's complicated, I can explain if necessary.)
Dalmation Molly: Tangent
Dalmation Molly fry: Hosae
??? Molly: Patch
Gold panda Molly: Poe
Minnow: no name

I originally had Tangent, the minnow, and Hosae in with two otocinclus. Hosae is the only surviving fry, Tangent is his mother. I recently got Poe, Patch, and another otocinclus to give each species of fish the proper amount of companionship, and things were fine for about a week.
And then yesterday happened.
I woke up to Patch dead, and as I was removing her from the tank, Hosae began to float from a swim bladder infection. It was very sudden, but then he died withing the hour. The minnow killed itself (can explain later). Today I woke to two Otto's dead, and the only ones left in the tank are Tangent and Poe Tangent had a white fuzz around her mouth that has appeared before, but now there are spots near her back that look like they might be ick?? Poe is laying on the bottom of the tank, her fins are moving slowly, but she has been more active recently. Poe has a white hazy edge to her fins I changed the water yesterday (40%), and today (40% again) and she seemed more active for a little bit after each time. I have aquarium salts in there along with Pimafix oil, and I vacuumed the gravel with each water change. Tangent no longer has the white fuzz, but the white dots are still there. She is active, but top fin is near her back which I have learned means I pissed her off. Tangent and I have been together for months, so I know her, but I don't know Poe well and can't tell her mood of if she is fading. Neither of them are shimmying, although they were before the first water change. The last Otto has been moved to another tank.
I don't know what happened or what to do, I'm worried I might lose Poe, and Tangent clearly is lonely
is searching for Hosae, but I don't want to risk introducing any more Molly's until I know what is happening.

 

[KOH119725]

Sorry! I thought I hit the live-bearers forum!

Update: Poe is still laying on bottom of tank, breathing kind of heavily. Also, I forgot to mention, but every Molly I introduced to the tank was female. Tangent is slow in moving around the tank, and is staying in Poe's general location

 

[Essjay]

Can you tell us a bit more information please.

What are the levels of ammonia, nitrite and nitrate in the tank? If you don't have your own testers, take a sample of tank water to a fish store and ask them to test for you. Make them give you numbers rather than something like 'fine' or 'a bit high' as what is fine to them may not be fine in reality.
Do you know how hard your tap water is? That information should be somewhere on your water provider's website. If it isn't there, take a sample of tap water to the fish store if/when you take the tank water. Make sure you don't mix the bottles! Again you need numbers, and also the unit of measurement for hardness as there are several they could use.

Could anything have got into the tank? Aerosols, air fresheners, a toddler throwing something in, whatever?


However, I do need to warn you that 10 gallons is too small for mollies long term as they are quite big fish.

 

[Colin_T]

It's probably a water quality issue and the best treatment is big daily water changes and gravel cleaning the substrate. Do a 75% water change and gravel clean the substrate each day for the next 2 weeks.
Make sure any new water is free of chlorine/ chloramine before it's added to the tank.

Take a sample of the water to a pet shop and get it tested for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and pH. Write down the results in numbers and post them here. If the shop says the water is fine, ask them what the results are in numbers.

The following link has info about what to do if your fish get sick. Basically, big water changes, post pictures of the sick fish, tes the water, etc.

What to do if your fish gets sick

If your fish ever looks sick or unwell, then the following steps might help. Test the Water and Clean the Tank. Test the water quality for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH and write the results down in numbers. Check it for general hardness (GH) and carbonate hardness (KH) too if you can, but...

www.fishforums.net

 

[KOH119725]

Can you tell us a bit more information please.

What are the levels of ammonia, nitrite and nitrate in the tank? If you don't have your own testers, take a sample of tank water to a fish store and ask them to test for you. Make them give you numbers rather than something like 'fine' or 'a bit high' as what is fine to them may not be fine in reality.
Do you know how hard your tap water is? That information should be somewhere on your water provider's website. If it isn't there, take a sample of tap water to the fish store if/when you take the tank water. Make sure you don't mix the bottles! Again you need numbers, and also the unit of measurement for hardness as there are several they could use.

Could anything have got into the tank? Aerosols, air fresheners, a toddler throwing something in, whatever?


However, I do need to warn you that 10 gallons is too small for mollies long term as they are quite big fish.

I don't have a testing kit yet, but might have one by this evening. Poe seems to be laying near the back of the tank and does move around a little more when the tank light is off and sunlight is the only light. Maybe my lights are too strong as well? I can't really gauge how bad things are because Poe is relatively new and I don't know her temperament, but at the same time tangent has been through hell and fought through it so I can't gauge how bad it is with her either. Pretty sure we have soft water, but every water change I have used prime seachem water conditioner? There is nothing that could have gotten in that. Ivan think of

 

[Essjay]

The soft water could be the problem with the mollies. They are hard water fish which must have a lot of minerals in the water. They become sick easily if kept in soft water, I'm afraid. This is something that few fish stores will tell you, even if they know about it. Most fish shop workers (note I said most, Colin ) don't have a clue about fish.

But otos are soft water fish so adding minerals to the tank water will be bad for them, I'm afraid.

 

[KOH119725]

The soft water could be the problem with the mollies. They are hard water fish which must have a lot of minerals in the water. They become sick easily if kept in soft water, I'm afraid. This is something that few fish stores will tell you, even if they know about it. Most fish shop workers (note I said most, Colin ) don't have a clue about fish.

But otos are soft water fish so adding minerals to the tank water will be bad for them, I'm afraid.

I moved the Otto to a separate tank, and he seems better. Does a carbon filter remove the minerals the Molly's need? Like I said I got an Aqueon 10 gallon and use the filter it came with, the only extra thing I have in there is a heater

 

[KOH119725]

I moved the Otto to a separate tank, and he seems better. Does a carbon filter remove the minerals the Molly's need? Like I said I got an Aqueon 10 gallon and use the filter it came with, the only extra thing I have in there is a heater

Another question, about Hosae. He was a dalmation Molly fry, and this isn't the first time he had survived an illness. He was about four months old, so a decent size. He died very very quickly, but I thought swim bladder infections didn't kill immediately? From first symptoms to death he was gone in about 30-45 minutes.

 

[Essjay]

Carbon does not remove the hardness minerals.

But I do need to ask - does the filter contain anything else besides carbon? And do you change the carbon every few weeks?
If you are changing the carbon, every time you do that you'll throw away a lot, if not all, of the good bacteria the tank. This will allow ammonia and then nitrite to build up before more bacteria have time to grow. This is why I asked about the ammonia etc levels in the tank. Colin_T also suspects a water quality issue. You need to do the water changes he suggested as both amminia and nitrite are poisonous to fish. Prime only detoxifies them for around 24 hours, then they become toxic again, which is why you need lots of water changes.

The problems with the mollies is most likely be due to being weakened by being in soft water, then weakened further by ammonia and nitrite in the water so that the least thing can push them over the edge.

 

[KOH119725]

Update: Poe and Tangent are still alive, I did a water test, and my gh, kh, and pH are all too low. I added a very small amount of baking soda to make it tolerable for the moment. I have read that adding coral to a tank can help harden water. I have little pieces of coral and some shells I pulled of the Florida coast two years ago, is it a good idea to put some of those in? Or is that a myth?

 

[KOH119725]

Carbon does not remove the hardness minerals.

But I do need to ask - does the filter contain anything else besides carbon? And do you change the carbon every few weeks?
If you are changing the carbon, every time you do that you'll throw away a lot, if not all, of the good bacteria the tank. This will allow ammonia and then nitrite to build up before more bacteria have time to grow. This is why I asked about the ammonia etc levels in the tank. Colin_T also suspects a water quality issue. You need to do the water changes he suggested as both amminia and nitrite are poisonous to fish. Prime only detoxifies them for around 24 hours, then they become toxic again, which is why you need lots of water changes.

The problems with the mollies is most likely be due to being weakened by being in soft water, then weakened further by ammonia and nitrite in the water so that the least thing can push them over the edge.

Nitrite and nitrate levels both came out fine, but the GH is really bad

 

[KOH119725]

Update: Poe and Tangent are still alive, I did a water test, and my gh, kh, and pH are all too low. I added a very small amount of baking soda to make it tolerable for the moment. I have read that adding coral to a tank can help harden water. I have little pieces of coral and some shells I pulled of the Florida coast two years ago, is it a good idea to put some of those in? Or is that a myth?

Another note is that when I turn off the lights Poe seems to regain some energy, pulling herself up and moving around the tank a little before laying back down. Are my lights too strong ???

 

[Essjay]

Baking soda won't do anything to help I'm afraid. it will raise KH (carbonate hardness) but not GH.
GH is a measure of mainly calcium and some magnesium, and these are what mollies need. Baking soda is sodium hydrogen carbonate, it doesn't contain calcium or magnesium.

If there are just mollies in the tank now you can buy Rift Lake salts to add to the tank. These are really meant to make the water hard enough for Rift Lake cichlids but will be fine for mollies too. You would need to add the Rift Lake salts to the new water when you do a water change, and you will need a GH tester. Add Rift Lake salts to a bucket of water till the tester shows the GH is right for mollies, and make a note of how much you added. Mollies need a GH of at least 15 dH, with higher being better. Then when you do a water change you'll know how much Rift Lake salts to add to the new water before it goes in the tank. I would check the GH at each water change till you are sure the GH is the same each time as the GH needs to remain constant once it is at the target level.

 

[KOH119725]

Baking soda won't do anything to help I'm afraid. it will raise KH (carbonate hardness) but not GH.
GH is a measure of mainly calcium and some magnesium, and these are what mollies need. Baking soda is sodium hydrogen carbonate, it doesn't contain calcium or magnesium.

If there are just mollies in the tank now you can buy Rift Lake salts to add to the tank. These are really meant to make the water hard enough for Rift Lake cichlids but will be fine for mollies too. You would need to add the Rift Lake salts to the new water when you do a water change, and you will need a GH tester. Add Rift Lake salts to a bucket of water till the tester shows the GH is right for mollies, and make a note of how much you added. Mollies need a GH of at least 15 dH, with higher being better. Then when you do a water change you'll know how much Rift Lake salts to add to the new water before it goes in the tank. I would check the GH at each water change till you are sure the GH is the same each time as the GH needs to remain constant once it is at the target level.

Is there something I can do in the meantime to keep them alive until I can get to the store? Something I might have at home? Although I do drive I don't have my own vehicle

 

[KOH119725]

Baking soda won't do anything to help I'm afraid. it will raise KH (carbonate hardness) but not GH.
GH is a measure of mainly calcium and some magnesium, and these are what mollies need. Baking soda is sodium hydrogen carbonate, it doesn't contain calcium or magnesium.

If there are just mollies in the tank now you can buy Rift Lake salts to add to the tank. These are really meant to make the water hard enough for Rift Lake cichlids but will be fine for mollies too. You would need to add the Rift Lake salts to the new water when you do a water change, and you will need a GH tester. Add Rift Lake salts to a bucket of water till the tester shows the GH is right for mollies, and make a note of how much you added. Mollies need a GH of at least 15 dH, with higher being better. Then when you do a water change you'll know how much Rift Lake salts to add to the new water before it goes in the tank. I would check the GH at each water change till you are sure the GH is the same each time as the GH needs to remain constant once it is at the target level.

Also, I have shells and coral from a vacation a while back. Can that help somehow?