Help this idiot newbie

[badbrownbear]

Please do not use AmmoLock as that will stall the cycle which in turn will extend the length of time that the cycle takes

To complete the cycle you need ammonia to encourage the nitrite to turn to nitrate which in turn kills the ammonia/nitrite....by using ammonia killing additives you effectively starve the good bacteria into non-existance which is trying to balance your water chemistry

This is why doing a fish less cycle is easier since the entire process generally takes weeks or even months to complete and if fish are there it can be very detrimental to their health. The average fish less cycle takes around 8 weeks, whereas one with fish will take around 12 weeks (especially with goldies since they are often very messy fish)

Yeah I only found this out a little while after using it. I initially did it to stop it from harming the fish. But in a non cycled tanks it’s not very help full. Doing a 70% water change is more helpful in this scenario I’m guessing

 

[Bruce Leyland-Jones]

So you're progressing well and you've stopped overfeeding.

Plants have been mentioned and whilst it is true that your fish would enjoy their greens, you could still add a load of pondweed/Elodea and/or floating plants. These are fast growers and will help combat your toxic ammonia issues. They are relatively cheap and you don't even need to plant them.

 

[badbrownbear]

Cheers guys. I’m now looking at easy plants to add to the tank. Hopefully the fish will like the new additions.

 

[badbrownbear]

I’ve found the ones readily available at the local fish pet shop are the easiest, like Java ferns, Anubias. & hornwort & a few others. They don’t stock the more difficult plants, like the reds.

Can I just put them into the tank? Or will I need to wash them or treat them?

 

[Bruce Leyland-Jones]

I’ve found the ones readily available at the local fish pet shop are the easiest, like Java ferns, Anubias. & hornwort & a few others. They don’t stock the more difficult plants, like the reds.

NOT Anubias.
NOT Java Fern.
These are very slow growing and relatively useless when it comes to managing toxic waters.
Check this list for more suitable plants

 

[Bruce Leyland-Jones]

Can I just put them into the tank? Or will I need to wash them or treat them?

No need to treat them...just give them a rinse and remove any dead bits.
For the purposes of waste management, just place them in the water.
(I suspect your fish would destroy any attempts at planting nicely )

 

[FishHobby99]

NOT Anubias.
NOT Java Fern.
These are very slow growing and relatively useless when it comes to managing toxic waters.
Check this list for more suitable plants

Yeah, but they’re pretty & are sprouting off young’uns & maybe flowers someday & my water chems are flawless.

 

[ClownLurch]

Has anyone mentioned testing the water at source then 24hrs later yet?

 

[badbrownbear]

Has anyone mentioned testing the water at source then 24hrs later yet?

I did an initial test but didn’t let it sit and retest after 24hrs

 

[ClownLurch]

I did an initial test but didn’t let it sit and retest after 24hrs

Give it a go if you’ve time on your hands. Some people get different results 24 hrs later.
@Essjay is a chemist she could explain why a lot better than I’ll ever be able too……..he posted giving poor essjay even more hassle on here than she’s already got! Sorry!

 

[Essjay]

I think ClownLurch is referring to pH testing. When testing this in tap water, it can change on standing, and as the tank water is not freshly run we need to know the tap water pH when it's just been run, and when it's stood in a glass overnight. Carbon dioxide dissolves in water especially when it's under pressure in the mains pipes. Carbon dioxide makes the water acidic; but when water is allowed to stand it gasses off and the pH rises. Water companies also add things to mains water - if the pH is low it can corrode their pipes so they add things to raise the pH which also gasses off on standing and the pH then falls. It doesn't always change a lot, it can just rise or fall by a tiny amount.
The other things we test for don't change on standing but I would test your tap water for ammonia. Some places use chloramine rather than chlorine, and this is chlorine and ammonia joined together. Dechlorinators split it up and make the chlorine part harmless but leave the ammonia part in the water. So every time you do a water change you add a bit of ammonia and when there aren't enough bacteria yet, this stays in the water. Once enough bacteria have grown they will remove this ammonia within a few hours, which is why it is usually recommended to use a water conditioner which also detoxifies ammonia to keep the fish safe until the bacteria have had time to 'eat' it.

Elodea is one of the cheapest plants and it can be left floating. It is a fast growing plant which will remove ammonia from the water. Plants use ammonia as fertiliser and they turn it into protein rather than nitrite. The fish will probably eat the elodea, but if you don't mind the cost of replacing it when they eat it, it both helps with ammonia and feeds the fish.

 

[badbrownbear]

some bad news.

One of the fish died. Carrot

Over the past couple of days as suggested if I see any ammonia in the tank, do a 70% water change daily. In a 200l tank that’s 140l if my maths is correct. I’ve been adding tap conditioner to the water I’m adding. So tap conditioner to the 140l in.

My method is to take 140l out over 14 buckets. 10l at a time. Cleaning the sand etc at the same time, mainly hoovering poop. This method works best for me.

I then fill up a 50l bucket to around 40l capacity add the necessary water conditioner to this and use a pond pump to pump the clean water into the tank. Temperature wise I just use my hand. I know this is not ideal but it’s all I can think of. I’m not sure if this method increases the shock factor as I’m not sure how accurate this method actually is. If anyone could share best practices regarding getting the exact temp, please share.

I repeat the process of filling the 50l bucket first. Touch test the water temp and pump.

I was on my way into town to try and pick up some plants for the tank as suggested earlier. I had to make a trip back home because I forgot my phone and wallet. That’s is when I noticed carrot floating like it was dead. This was in the space of and hour/ 45 minutes from seeing him sitting at the bottom like he was doing after the water change. After the water change carrot was somewhat upset.

The other two, Chocolate and shiny were relatively active and swimming about. The only time carrot moved was when the other two nudged him. I dropped in some food. Chocolate and shiny were all over it. Carrot however wasn’t so much. Had a few nibbles but got beat to a lot by the other two.

It was mentioned before fish can go a long time without food. They essentially eat for movement and growth. So naturally I’d assume since I haven’t fed them in 24hr carrot is just being economical with his movement.

Unfortunately this was carrot when I came to get my wallet and phone. I immediately took him out and placed him in a bucket which was already conditioned.

Nothing.
Carrot was an amazing fish despite having it for only a short while. It’s the 1st one I wanted when I walking into the pet store.

What mistake am I making?

Please help me so I don’t make the same mistake.

My other two beauties are doing ok as far as I can tell but so was carrot until today.

 

[Linkandnavi]

some bad news.

One of the fish died. Carrot

Over the past couple of days as suggested if I see any ammonia in the tank, do a 70% water change daily. In a 200l tank that’s 140l if my maths is correct. I’ve been adding tap conditioner to the water I’m adding. So tap conditioner to the 140l in.

My method is to take 140l out over 14 buckets. 10l at a time. Cleaning the sand etc at the same time, mainly hoovering poop. This method works best for me.

I then fill up a 50l bucket to around 40l capacity add the necessary water conditioner to this and use a pond pump to pump the clean water into the tank. Temperature wise I just use my hand. I know this is not ideal but it’s all I can think of. I’m not sure if this method increases the shock factor as I’m not sure how accurate this method actually is. If anyone could share best practices regarding getting the exact temp, please share.

I repeat the process of filling the 50l bucket first. Touch test the water temp and pump.

I was on my way into town to try and pick up some plants for the tank as suggested earlier. I had to make a trip back home because I forgot my phone and wallet. That’s is when I noticed carrot floating like it was dead. This was in the space of and hour/ 45 minutes from seeing him sitting at the bottom like he was doing after the water change. After the water change carrot was somewhat upset. View attachment 148766

The other two, Chocolate and shiny were relatively active and swimming about. The only time carrot moved was when the other two nudged him. I dropped in some food. Chocolate and shiny were all over it. Carrot however wasn’t so much. Had a few nibbles but got beat to a lot by the other two.

It was mentioned before fish can go a long time without food. They essentially eat for movement and growth. So naturally I’d assume since I haven’t fed them in 24hr carrot is just being economical with his movement.

View attachment 148767

Unfortunately this was carrot when I came to get my wallet and phone. I immediately took him out and placed him in a bucket which was already conditioned.

Nothing.
Carrot was an amazing fish despite having it for only a short while. It’s the 1st one I wanted when I walking into the pet store.

What mistake am I making?

Please help me so I don’t make the same mistake.

My other two beauties are doing ok as far as I can tell but so was carrot until today.

View attachment 148768

Sorry to hear this. You aren't necessarily making any mistake. There are two ways of cycling a tank. Fishless or with fish in. Fish-in cycling always carries risks for the fish as they'll have to survive multiple ammonia and nitrite spikes until the filter is fully cycled and doing its job. Water changes help to alleviate that (just as you are doing, which is great) but there's no guarantee.

Cycling is a tough time, especially if you've never done it before, so hang in there and don't let it put you off the hobby. Goldfish are a hard fish to cycle with as they're big waste producers (meaning more ammonia produced) and you were doing it with three which don't look like babies.

In terms of your touch test for the water change temperature, you could get a glass floating thermometer for the tank and just pop it in your water change tub. That'll tell you the temp of the water going in and they cost a couple of £.

Generally better to fill the tub with cold water, add the conditioner and then put a cheap aquarium heater in it to bring it to temperature. Takes the randomness out (and using the hot tap in the UK can sometimes introduce heavy metals from the boiler/hot water pipes).

 

[Naughts]

Sorry for your loss.

Re- read the previous advise to remind yourself of the priorities. We are aiming to keep ammonia and nitrite at an absolute minimum to reduce the damage to the fish.

-Daily testing
-Daily 70% water changes when ammonia or nitrite is above zero.
-Only feed 3x per week
-Add plants, eloeda and duckweed work well with goldfish.

Regarding water changes, you have a lot ahead of you. It will be easier to attach the syphon to a garden hose and drain the water outside. Temperature matching the water is fine by hand. Fish won't get stressed by a difference of 1 or 2 degrees either way and we can feel that difference [for example when we check a child's temperature by touch, we know when it feels ok (c37°) and not ok (c39°)]. You haven't said, what temperature is the tank?

 

[Essjay]

It is safe to use hot tap water to warm the new water if you have a combi boiler, but not if you have a hot water cylinder with a header tank in the attic.