Help... Sudden Death And Others Are Not Looking Well

Thank you for all your replies. I am very grateful.

As for the chemicals, it through reading other post etc and websites/forums that I have read that adding chemicals is a quck fix and the tank and then a few weeks later the tank will spike again etc as they can kill off some of the valuable bacteria (or something like that).

Thank you for the advise on the clown loach. He seems very happy and he and the albino catfish shoal together all the time. They seem best of buddies and he seems very happy and hasn't got any white spot the now.. just the guppies.

Can anyone confirm the best treatment for white spot. Some of the posts say about turning the thermostat up and waiting for the spots (bugs) to drop off then treating, others, to treat straight away with white spot treatment.


Also, sorry about the 2 post on the same topuic. I double clicked it and it posted twice. is there any way of putting i9t all into one post and deleting the other?

Cal
 
Thanks everyone. I posted this twice by mistake and it getting a bit confusing going between the 2 with all the advise. Is there any way of moving all post into 1 and deleting the other? :blush:

In trhe other post someone says a different thing about the size of the tank and loaches. May I ask is it possible for a loach to live happily without other loaches. Mine seem very happ. He and the albino catfish are always together and swim around each others bodies like spiralling as they swim (if you know what i mean). they even rest next to each other. The catfish is a nutter though io have to say :hyper: . We called him lightning maqueen like the character out of the new disneys film cars. He zooms around and jumps out of the water.. he cracking!


Also, someone mentioned that it would be good to see the Ph of my water before adding anything as the test showed a bit lighter than the 6.4 on the strip. I have tested the ph and it is the same untreated... any suggestions. I live on a Scottish Highland Island and the water is so very soft and clean that you can drink it.. its like natural spring water it tastes that good.

On the white spot problem... some says on the forum to raise temp then wait till spots drop of before treating and others to treat straight away. I need a bit of help on this to clarify.. do i water change every day etc or every thrid or weekly etc.

All your comments are greatly appreciated.

Cal
 
It might also be worthwhile to check the PH of your tap water. 6.4 seems a little low and it would be interesting to see if that's a product of what's happening in your tank, or if that's just your tap water. If your tap water is neutral - somewhere around 7 or 7.2, we need to figure out the root cause of your low levels in the tank. The most important thing is for your PH to remain steady. if it goes up and down you can shock the fish. (which is the danger with trying to control it chemically).


Hi there. I checked my water Ph and it is the same before adding any product.

Cal
 
You say you changed your filter to a Fluval 3? So you threw away the old one & installed the new & set it running???

Andy
 
You say you changed your filter to a Fluval 3? So you threw away the old one & installed the new & set it running???

Andy



Yeh Andy,
Big mistake I know now as if i have it right, its got to build up its bacteria etc.

Cal
 
really, 6.4 is not a *bad* pH in and of itself--its just that some fish prefer a higher pH. other fish (basically all of the ones from South America) prefer a nice low pH just like the one you have! looking over your fish list, i don't see any that have *got* to have a higher pH and plenty that like acidic water. my advice? don't add anything because a stable pH is better than a spot-on 7 pH.

King's Whitespot is supposed to be a good UK med; Interpet is also a reputable brand over there. Follow the instructions on the packet (unless they say "no waterchanges", because you'll need to keep on with those.)

the alternative of significantly increasing the temperature of the tank might also be a good choice for you, since re-dosing meds after water changes can get a little pricey. the bad news is that the "86 deg" treatment takes a bit longer and is increasingly less effective as the parasites are starting to become more resiliant.

just keep on trucking! and save up for a great big tank (at least 4'x1.5'x2') because you're going to need it with that plec. the good news is that any tank big enough for a common pleco is big enough for a nice school of clown loaches :good:
 
Those white spots are not bugs...they are parasites that if left untreated
they will kill your fish and spread to all your other fish. The Name is ICH.

You need to take infected fish out and treat him with medicine in a hospital
tank. You need to get another product called Parasite Gone or another product
called Methylene Blue. ICH doesnt just go away. Raising the temp in the tank
will speed up the cycle in the parasite...but not after the parasite kills your
fish and spreads to all your other fish. IF YOU DONT ACT ON THIS..YOU WILL
LOSE YOUR ENTIRE TANK.

ICH was probably brought on...cause once again for the million time...Your
tank had NEW TANK SYNDROME.

Also the chemicals are not a quick fix...they will help restore your tank back
to Normal. The spike shouldnt happan again if you keep up your water changes
and monitor the conditions..

You have alot to learn...I would highly suggest buying some books. Go to a
website http://www.wetwebmedia.com/index.html

This website is ran by robert fenner...his books are known as the bibles of
fish keeping. He has an email and you can write in and ask questions.
Everything I learned, I learned from him and from my own experience.

Good luck with the ICH..
 
really, 6.4 is not a *bad* pH in and of itself--its just that some fish prefer a higher pH. other fish (basically all of the ones from South America) prefer a nice low pH just like the one you have! looking over your fish list, i don't see any that have *got* to have a higher pH and plenty that like acidic water. my advice? don't add anything because a stable pH is better than a spot-on 7 pH.

King's Whitespot is supposed to be a good UK med; Interpet is also a reputable brand over there. Follow the instructions on the packet (unless they say "no waterchanges", because you'll need to keep on with those.)

the alternative of significantly increasing the temperature of the tank might also be a good choice for you, since re-dosing meds after water changes can get a little pricey. the bad news is that the "86 deg" treatment takes a bit longer and is increasingly less effective as the parasites are starting to become more resiliant.

just keep on trucking! and save up for a great big tank (at least 4'x1.5'x2') because you're going to need it with that plec. the good news is that any tank big enough for a common pleco is big enough for a nice school of clown loaches :good:


Thank you so much. I have done a 50% water change, cleaned the gravel stuff and then added the new water (with dechlorinater) and then the white spot (intrepet) as directed on the bottle. It says to redose in 4 days. I found the post about white spot on the forum which was also a big help. I hear what you are saying about the Ph and spoke to someone I know that has 5 6ft tanks on the island and has been in the fish scene for many years. He was saying that the water on the island is very good and he knows folk that dont even add dechlorinater to the new water and their tanks are excellent. He does add it and i shall keep on doing the same however :rolleyes:

He lives over the other side of the island and is off island at the moment so is unable to have a look at my fish. Not to worry though as I shall keep plodding on and get my prayer mat out. The tank was doing absolutely swell untill I changed the filter as the old one didn't seem to clear the water (cloudy all the time) very well. I blame myself for not realising that if i had to cycle the tank in the beginning then I should have left the filter medium of the new filter to float on the top for a few weeks until changing the filter (I was reading other post).

I suppose like anything new, it is my experience that is lacking and It is a hard lesson to learn when the fish die.

i was wondering though as I have read that for fish to breed etc then the conditions of the tank have to be good, how on earth do my fish keep producing young..... I have another 4 babies (that I can see) appeared. So this is the fourth lot! i dont think I have an aquarium any more... It feels more like a porn shop :crazy: :drool:

cal
 
Those white spots are not bugs...they are parasites that if left untreated
they will kill your fish and spread to all your other fish. The Name is ICH.


I know they are parasites. it was a play on words, as in nasty little things. I know the difference between the 2 as I am a nurse, so give me some credit.


You know something matey..... Your attitude Sucks!
There are thousands of members on this site and although, as you keep telling me you have a multitude of experience from many years of being in the fish nohow, it doesn't mean that you are always right, or that I can not confirm what you are advising me with other members!

And yes, as you have said for the Millionth time.... It is probably NEW TANK SYNDROME!. But, as some of your advise is debatedable going from other topic posts, obviously I am going to weigh up all the advise in the hope that I can get it right.. and do the best thing for my fish.

I am a newbie and you were probably too, once upon a time. So, with that in mind, stop being so ####ty and instead of posting capitals in your post which are viewed as shouting, and seem to be getting annoyed when I don't do as you say.. why dont you just advise nicely and give support and encouragement instead of what seems like condeming me!

Yes I have alot to learn, and yes I have bought books already but there's nothing like advise from people who have been there and gone through the same thing.
 
No offense, but good advice was offered to you here several times in regard to treating the ich and reducing your over-stocked tank, but you remained steadfast into believing the idiot (yes, he's an idiot as well as a crook) at the lfs knows everything, as do the people you know personally, so you kept rejecting the very advice and help you were seeking out here.

If anyone's attitude sucks, matey, it's yours.

If you came here as a noob not knowing squat about fishkeeping and insisting experienced people here don't what the hell it is they're talking about, why come here and ask questions? Good luck getting helpful advice in the future here.

I feel sorry for your fish :crazy:

Regards.
 
On the white spot problem... some says on the forum to raise temp then wait till spots drop of before treating and others to treat straight away. I need a bit of help on this to clarify.. do i water change every day etc or every thrid or weekly etc.

Read the directions on the box.
 
Good grief people... some of you just need to chill out. The OP had absolutely NO attitute in this thread. They've been nothing but nice and seem to have been taking everyone's advice and opinions to heart.
I can't say the same for another poster who came into this thread with their nose stuck in the air like they knew every possible thing and when questioned about certain things copped an attitude.

ANYWAYS... to the OP... I hope the rest of your fish are gonna be ok. As other people have suggested.. you should really think about taking back the clown loach & possibly the pleco. From what I've read the loach can get up to 12inches long (maybe bigger)...plecos even bigger.

As with adding chemicals to balance things etc etc... I can only tell you what I've heard from very knowledgeable people.. the less chemicals you use, the better.
 
Hello again (good pictures you’ve taken there BTW),

OK, these are just my opinions on what I’ve read thus far..

Stocking
Stocking based on the general rule based on the surface area of the water in your tank which is 213 square inches yields a total mature maximum stocking length of 18 inches. Stocking based on the general rule based on the volume of the water in your tank which is 16 US Gallons yields a total mature maximum stocking length of 16 inches.

Adding up the stocking you currently have, yields a total maximum mature length of approximately 45 inches. Your tank needs to be at least 2.5 time bigger, but I think you know that anyway. For good general information on fish species, see this link to the forum’s ‘Fish Index’: http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showforum=36

Simply considering just the maximum total stocking length is not the end of the story – it is more complicated than that when stocking a tank (things are always complicated for some reason): Many fish like to be in minimal groupings of 4 to 6 individuals. Also, many fish (regardless of inches / per US Gallon rule) need minimum tank sizes. Finally, careful choices must be made when choosing tank mates. This is why you may see many threads regarding advice on stocking options.

OK, your fish are not yet fully mature – add up there current lengths and see if things are OK NOW. Then plan for the future when they DO start to out grow the tank. If you are worried about current 'baby' sized stocking levels then perhaps consider adding a second filter. (Many people add second filters to their setups regardless). Perhaps use your old filter as well, if you have not thrown it away?

Oops
As you know, a tank needs cycling, i.e. time for the nitrifying bacterial colonies in your filters, substrate, stuck to your glass etc to build up to a level that can cope with the amount of Ammonia & then Nitrite that a certain stocking of fish produces. Regular water changes then take care of any Nitrate. If you have fish in a tank then you are going to have some levels of Ammonia, Ammonium, Nitrite and Nitrate in your tank.

You don’t HAVE to have 0 levels of everything. I consider these ranges:

(Toxic) Ammonia – >0.02 – very dangerous (I’ll come back to this)
Nitrite: less than 1.0ppm Good, 2.5ppm Liveable, >5.0ppm, worry, do water changes etc.
Nitrate: <40ppm ideal. >100ppm, worry, do water changes etc.

If you are saying:
‘Ammonia’ = 0.1ppm <- this is a measure of Ammonia AND Ammonim.
(Actually 0.0000277ppm TOXIC Ammonia)
Nitrite = 3ppm getting nasty – do some water changes to bring this down to below 1ppm
Nitrate = 2.5ppm well within safe level
PH = 6.4 fine. <- investigate your fish on the ‘Fish Index’ or where ever to see what your fish prefer. BTW, I guess your tank is now going through a cycling process. During this pH will go all over the place. Trying to set your pH by adding stabilizers will be foolish and unnecessary.
Temp 24°C fine – increase it to 27°C – this will speed up the cycling process.

(BTW, do you use drop test kits?)

As you may well know, I think your tank is cycling again because you switched filters. This is bad news really especially considering how over-stocked you are. If I were you I’d seed your filters with Mulm.

Mulm
Deep vac your substrate. Let the water you’ve collected settle. The crap settled in the bottom of the bucket is Mulm. Carefully drain the water out, collect this stuff and add it into your filters, hence seeding them and thus greatly speeding up the cycling process.

If I were you, I’d consider daily 20 to 30% water changes until your tank gets re-cycled. This should take care of your now rising levels of Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate. Test daily for levels and act accordingly. Water changes will not affect the bacterial levels as these bacteria are sessile and are not ‘in the water’.

I suggest water changes over adding Prime because it is cheaper and in adding Prime you are taking away the exact thing that your filter need in order to cycle, i.e. food in the initial form of Ammonia and Nitrite!

As I suggested above, increasing the temperature of your tank will also speed the cycling process.

The Ammonia / Ammonium Balance
The lower your pH, the better with regards to TOXIC levels of Ammonia. I am not a great believer in ‘fiddling’ with pH. If you are going to take this route then start with RO (Reverse Osmosis) water and go from there. I do not know why it has been suggested that you HAVE to aim for EXACTLY a pH of 7.0…..

Your test kit measures ‘Ammonia’, i.e. NH3/NH4, in other words it is simultaneously measuring a combination of TWO things, toxic Ammonia and (safe) Ammonium (Note: both Ammonia and Ammonium get eaten by the nitrifying bacteria). The lower the pH, the less the balance swings towards toxic Ammonia, so in this respect a low pH is very good.

See here:
http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=154313

Ammonia (NH3/NH4) = 0.1ppm, pH=6.4, Temp = 24°C Yields: 0.0277%, i.e. your actual TOXIC levels of ammonia are 0.0277% of 0.1 = 0.0000277ppm. In other words a factor of 700 times below that considered dangerous, i.e. 0.02ppm

Chemicals
I wouldn’t blanket state that adding ‘chemicals’ to the water per-se is bad. Some ‘chemicals’ are definitely required, such as water conditioners that remove chlorine, chloramine and heavy metals from tap water. I also dose fertilizers for my plants on a daily basis.

I do not believe in bacterial cultures – I think they are a waste of money (with the possible exception of BioSpira) – if these products do not come refrigerated or fed / aerated, then I cannot see how they can live. (BioSpira is the only product that I know of that is refrigerated).

BTW, an air-stone IMHO will do next to nothing with regards to oxygenating the tank and should NOT be used in a planted tank as it will reduce levels of CO2. The output from your power head should be positioned such that it ‘gently agitates’ the surface of the water.

White Spot
I don’t think bad water does not ‘causes’ white spot per-se. However, it does not help matters as it does reduce the fishes immune system and makes them more susceptible. The white spot must have come from some where, & I’m guessing that you have recently added new fish and that is the source of the disease. White spot is now in your water and in this respect your water is now ‘bad’. This is why it is always recommended that if you can, new fish should quarantined. Quarantining any sick fish is also the done thing in an attempt to prevent the disease from spreading form fish to fish. Hospital tanks are also smaller and therefore cheaper to medicate – but of course they will not be cycled so are higher maintenance: you want this water in tip top condition to aid the fishes immune system and thus speed recovery.

Honestly, GL

Andy
 
15.49 US Gallons
12.9 UK Gallons


So it is white spot?

My supplier who is very reputable, advise me it was ok to have the loach and the acara in the tank. Also that it was not over stocked. I have seen tanks of the same capacity with far more fish in them. I am planning on getting a large tank as time goes on as I knew some of the fish (especially the plec) would need it. The largest fish in the tank is about 2 inch.


Cal

your lfs may be reputable but they are not knowledgeable. Put it this way. Who's advice would you trust more? Someone who wants to take money from you, or someone who has noting to gain from you?
The lfs is there to make money. The people on here are not.
 

Most reactions

Back
Top