Help. Poorly Gourami!

[afremont]

Methylene Blue is basically harmless unless massively overdosed. Now potassium permanganate that's another story. You could keep fish in 3ppm of MB for a very long time.

Well, the friend I got my first fish from said that when she tried to use that on a fish for whatever illness I don't remember, she said that she might have held the fish too long in it and it died.

Maybe they were doing a dip at approx 50ppm, only 10 seconds is the limit. I've done that and the fish was fine afterwards. The problem with nitrIte poisoning is that the fish hangs on just like someone with cystic fibrosis. As long as the fish rests, it gets enough oxygen to survive. As soon as it stresses (like when being caught) it can die suddenly from lack of oxygen. I use MB in combination with other meds, it's nice like that and doesn't react with any other medications.

I don't know the quantity she added, just that she put the fish in a big, half-filled bowl and then she put the MB and water turned all blue (I saw the water, it was pretty darkish, I didn't ask how much she put in it but it looked like someone poured a tub of ink in it...)
The fish was a big betta, don't remember what the problem was though, definitely not related to nitrite but more like fungus or something. It was still swimming when I arrived there, but died pretty quick and she said it was swimming fine before the dip.

It turns the water dark blue, like tidy bowl blue even at 3ppm. At 50ppm you don't want your fish getting out of the dip net or you will never see it even in a small container. You can hardly see thru a full size tank at 3ppm. That's sad about her experience because MB is a great med that has some real potential and it's generally safe to use. I highly recommend to read up on it, you might be surprised at how useful it is. Of course, like most real medications it will kill the biological filter so keep it in a hospital tank, plus it stains things blue.

 

[akfox18]

Nitrite poisoning? Allowing the blood to carry the oxygen properly?

and salt fixes this issue directly?

You'll have to excuse me, fish medication/treatments is something I know very little about.

No, salt doesn't fix it, acts as a blocker for the problem. Salt, when dissolved in water, splits into two ions, one being a chloride ion. The chloride ion competes with nitrites that are trying to get into the blood stream thru the gills. Nitrites that get in convert the hemoglobin to methemoglobin which will not transfer oxygen to the cells from the blood. This is also called brown blood disease since the blood will not be bright red, but a subdued browning color is often observed in the gills. The fish slowly suffocates though the water has plenty of oxygen. Salt prevents further damage to the hemoglobin, but does little to nothing to reverse it.

If you fix the nitrIte problem, the fish will eventually replace the damaged hemoglobin and recover, but this takes time. Methylene Blue has the ability to convert methemoglobin immediately back to hemoglobin without waiting for it to be replaced naturally. It also increases the ability of the gills to transfer oxygen.

Yeah, but Methylene Blue can also be risky with weakened fish, especially if left too long in it.

Methylene Blue is basically harmless unless massively overdosed. Now potassium permanganate that's another story. You could keep fish in 3ppm of MB for a very long time.

now you've really lost me lol

Why is that? MB is hard to overdose, but PP is very easy to overdose. MB is just a cellular stain so it presents little danger to complex vertebrates, PP is an oxidizer and it doesn't care what it destroys; germs, gills, entire fish, it just doesn't care. A little too much PP is like a little too much chemotherapy, the patient dies.

MB is effective against many things that show up on the outside of the fish, but it's not extremely powerful since it relies on staining a cell to interrupt some aspect of its metabolism. PP just kills the cells outright by physically destroying them.

its all new to me. its all complicated. listening to you two makes me think i may need to read up on things so know what to look out for and what to do!

 

[afremont]

Can MB kill off filter bacteria though?

Oh yeah, it's a real antibiotic when it comes to single celled creatures. Invertebrates don't do to well around it either, it will kill your snails.

 

[FishBlast]

It turns the water dark blue, like tidy bowl blue even at 3ppm. At 50ppm you don't want your fish getting out of the dip net or you will never see it even in a small container. You can hardly see thru a full size tank at 3ppm. That's sad about her experience because MB is a great med that has some real potential and it's generally safe to use. I highly recommend to read up on it, you might be surprised at how useful it is. Of course, like most real medications it will kill the biological filter so keep it in a hospital tank, plus it stains things blue.

Well, that's what I've found about it, that it can cause damage to fish if exposure is prolonged. But also that some people use it against ich, gill flukes and finrot. Not sure if against fungus / mouth fungus like what that fish had.

Can MB kill off filter bacteria though?

Oh yeah, it's a real antibiotic when it comes to single celled creatures. Invertebrates don't do to well around it either, it will kill your snails.

Not like I'd move my little Ramses (a snail) with any fish if I'd ever need to treat with MB.

 

[afremont]

its all new to me. its all complicated. listening to you two makes me think i may need to read up on things so know what to look out for and what to do!

That's exactly what you should do. You will find that there is a great deal of conflicting information available, but there is also plenty of actual scientific information (backed up by real observation) out there too to help sort it out. Several universities have made extensive amounts of research material available online too.

 

[afremont]

It turns the water dark blue, like tidy bowl blue even at 3ppm. At 50ppm you don't want your fish getting out of the dip net or you will never see it even in a small container. You can hardly see thru a full size tank at 3ppm. That's sad about her experience because MB is a great med that has some real potential and it's generally safe to use. I highly recommend to read up on it, you might be surprised at how useful it is. Of course, like most real medications it will kill the biological filter so keep it in a hospital tank, plus it stains things blue.

Well, that's what I've found about it, that it can cause damage to fish if exposure is prolonged. But also that some people use it against ich, gill flukes and finrot. Not sure if against fungus / mouth fungus like what that fish had.

Can MB kill off filter bacteria though?

Oh yeah, it's a real antibiotic when it comes to single celled creatures. Invertebrates don't do to well around it either, it will kill your snails.

Not like I'd move my little Ramses (a snail) with any fish if I'd ever need to treat with MB.

I don't think it's particularly effective against columnaris (often erroneously called mouth "fungus" even though it's bacterial). It's one of those general purpose type meds that can assist other medications safely and help ward off secondary fungal or bacterial infections.

It used to be used by shippers since it aids oxygen transfer and the blue water helps keep the fish calmer. Another "feature" of the staining aspect is that it acts like a highlighter to show you any wounds or things growing on the fish. The slime coat normally prevents the fish from being stained blue, so any damage to it will be highlighted in blue after a dip, otherwise the fish will look the same as it did when it went in.

 

[FishBlast]

I don't think it's particularly effective against columnaris (often erroneously called mouth "fungus" even though it's bacterial). It's one of those general purpose type meds that can assist other medications safely and help ward off secondary fungal or bacterial infections.

It used to be used by shippers since it aids oxygen transfer and the blue water helps keep the fish calmer. Another "feature" of the staining aspect is that it acts like a highlighter to show you any wounds or things growing on the fish. The slime coat normally prevents the fish from being stained blue, so any damage to it will be highlighted in blue after a dip, otherwise the fish will look the same as it did when it went in.

Hmm sounds like a "must have" medicine. I think my mother had some from her former tank, but not sure if it's still around and if it's still good. Do these things have an expiry date?

 

[akfox18]

Nitrite back to 0

 

[FishBlast]

Nitrite back to 0

Make sure it stays there.