Help! Please! 1st Visit To This Website.

[loopy1]

Hi there, this is my first visit to this website. To be honest i am so fed up getting conflicting advice and am now getting desperate and quite upset!!!

Brief history: I have a 60L biorb. Originally i had 2 x dwarf cobalt blue gouramis (in with 5 x silver tipped tetras and 6 guppies(who i think are all male??)) - both gouramis died. I then brought 1 x male and 3 x female siamese fighting fish - male died. Brought another male. 2 x females have since died, the last one yesterday. I now have the original 5 tetras and 6 guppies, and one male and one female fighting fish.

I now have the 2 fighting fish in my very small (approx 4L) hospital tank, with a heater, air stone (air flow reduced) and a log to hide under. I moved the siamese to this tank as i was told that the reason they keep dying could be because the male sees the guppies as a threat because they look like small male fighting fish, and that they do not like a lot of room to swim around in or a lot of water movement??? Also, the males fins looked frayed and the female had a white area appear on her side. I have been treating them with 'Myxazin'.

All the fish that have died have been moved into the hospital tank and treated with the relevant medication as soon as i have noticed anything wrong. They seem to keep getting ulcers, white fungus patches and what looks like body/fin rot. I have never managed to save one yet - they just go down hill in the hospital tank even though they are being treated, and some have died on their own, and some i have had to euthanase!!!

I really don't know what i am doing wrong, and don't know why my fish keep getting diseases?? Is it the choice of fish i am putting together?? Do any of the medications that i have spent a fortune on really work??

The next main question relates to the 2 siamese that are currently in the small hospital tank. These two have been in the biorb together for approx 4 months, and in the hospital tank together for nearly a week, being treated with 'Myxazin'. I euthanased the other female, therefore leaving one male and one female together. Yesterday I thought they were fighting, but realised quite quickly that they were mating. The female was releasing lots of eggs when 'squeezed' by the male. This was going on all day, and both male and female were retreiving the eggs and blowing them out so that there were hundreds of eggs around the edge of the tank on the top of the water. Today all the eggs have gone?? There are a few floating about, but only a few. Also both fish haven't eaten now for 2 days, 4 different feeds. What is going on?? Why aren't they eating?? Where are the eggs?? What should i do?

HELPPPPPPPPPPP!!

Thank you so much, i really need some advice and help. I brought this fish tank approx a year ago to relax me, and it has been the most stressful thing i have ever brought. I really want to give these fish a good life, and i just seem to be killing them - it is very upsetting!! Any help or advice would be really appreciated.

 

[rdd1952]

First, hello and welcome to the forum.

Second, the biggest problem with the bettas, is that you can only keep a single male in a tank. As mentioned, it will see guppies (or any fish with ornate fins) as another betta and kill it. It will also do the same to female bettas. They can only be kept in the same tank while breeding. After the egs are laid, they must be seperated again or the male will kill the female.

Next question: how did you cycle your tank? Part of your problems sound like the results of an uncycled tank. As for the medications, they most likely do work but ufortunately, if the water parameters are bad with high ammonia and nitrite, the medications can't help that. Most diseases are brought on by bad water parameters.

As far as how to breed the bettas, look in the betta section for advice. As far as your other problems are concerned, there is no substitute for good maintenance and frequent water changes. Only use medications or other chemicals when absolutely necessary. Besides that, quite a few medications will kill off the bacteria colony leaving you with an uncycled tank so make sure you read the label before treating.

 

[moll]

Hi first thing I notice is all your stocking is wrong you can not keep simese fighting fish together two males should never be together male and female should never be together males should not be mixed with lots of other fish (esp. guppies) you can keep 4 plus females together.
they don't like strongly fillterd tanks
to be honest I think you need lots of help, will the shop where you bought them from take them back till you sort you tank or where are you some one here might be able to help.

it your tank cycled? this is the process where you let the bacteria in the filter build up withiut any fish in there so they dont get ammonia posining

to be honest its a good thing the bettas eat their egga as there is no way at the moment you can look after them please seperate you male and female before they kill each other.

Some one will be along with a lot more help for you soon

 

[loopy1]

First, hello and welcome to the forum.

Second, the biggest problem with the bettas, is that you can only keep a single male in a tank. As mentioned, it will see guppies (or any fish with ornate fins) as another betta and kill it. It will also do the same to female bettas. They can only be kept in the same tank while breeding. After the egs are laid, they must be seperated again or the male will kill the female.

Next question: how did you cycle your tank? Part of your problems sound like the results of an uncycled tank. As for the medications, they most likely do work but ufortunately, if the water parameters are bad with high ammonia and nitrite, the medications can't help that. Most diseases are brought on by bad water parameters.

As far as how to breed the bettas, look in the betta section for advice. As far as your other problems are concerned, there is no substitute for good maintenance and frequent water changes. Only use medications or other chemicals when absolutely necessary. Besides that, quite a few medications will kill off the bacteria colony leaving you with an uncycled tank so make sure you read the label before treating.

Thanks for replying!

I was told by all the shops that i could keep a male with one or more females, and it also says that in a book i have got The male and females all seem to get along ok, and i have also never seen any evidence of any prob between the male and the guppies?? I am confused now!! At the moment the male and female are just sitting in the hospital tank, not doing a lot. Why do you think they haven't eaten for a couple of days?

Re: good maintenance - i think i am doing everything ok. I do a 15% water change every 2 weeks, and every 6 weeks a 50% water change and clean the sponge filter in dirty aquarium water. I also 'hoover' the ceramic media thoroughly. I add stress coat to the tap water before it goes in the tank, and add stress zyme to the tank every 2 weeks.. All parameters are fine except pH, which is approx 8.2 and i can't seem to get it down. I have used buffer and Humaquat, but the pH stays the same?? My tap water had a pH of 7.5 when it comes out of the tap, but i did an experiment, and left a normal bowl of tap water overnight. The next morning the pH had increased to 8.2 When i added humaqaut to it the pH reduced and stayed at 7.5. I then assumed that it is something in the tank which is causing the pH to rise?? All i have in there is some plastic plants, the ceramic media, some pebbles and 2 pieces of bogwood. The ammonia and nitrite are never high?

Help!!!!!!!

 

[loopy1]

Hi first thing I notice is all your stocking is wrong you can not keep simese fighting fish together two males should never be together male and female should never be together males should not be mixed with lots of other fish (esp. guppies) you can keep 4 plus females together.
they don't like strongly fillterd tanks
to be honest I think you need lots of help, will the shop where you bought them from take them back till you sort you tank or where are you some one here might be able to help.

it your tank cycled? this is the process where you let the bacteria in the filter build up withiut any fish in there so they dont get ammonia posining

to be honest its a good thing the bettas eat their egga as there is no way at the moment you can look after them please seperate you male and female before they kill each other.

Some one will be along with a lot more help for you soon

Thanks for replying!

I have only got one male and one female now - i have never had 2 males together as i knew that this is a no no! In the book i have got it says to keep one male to a few females??

The water paramaters are fine, except a high pH. The ammonia and nitrite is fine.

So do you think the bettas ate the eggs then? The male and female are just sitting in the hospital tank at the moment not doing a lot, and they have been together in the biorb for a few months together with no obvious problems? I am confused now!!!!!

 

[moll]

Bettas will offten live happily together for a few months with no problem then the will turn on each other how big is your hospital tank can youy add a divider between your 2 fish they will not need to eat if they have eaten all the eggs and they may be too stressed to eat flake or pellets.

Ther is a lot of bad advice and misinformation about bettas pop over to the betta part of this forum and read through some of the posts.

when you say ammonia and nitrate are fine what are the actual readings as some people think 1's are fine others don't

 

[Miss Wiggle]

Hi there,

welcome to the forum, firstly I'm sorry you've had such a hard induction to fishkeeping, it's a wonderful hobby but there's so much bad outdated advice floating around that beginners often end up with these sorts of problems. It's the main reason I come on this forum, try to help out those who've had a bad start.

One thing that's important to understand is that it's difficult for us to diagnose problems remotley without seeing the tank or taking readings ourselves, because of this when we ask a question we need you to answer in as much detail as is possible and as accuratley as you can, when we ask what are your levels we need the actual readings not just 'fine' or 'a bit high'. There are often small details which you may think are insiginificant but really are the key to unravelling the problems, so it's always better to tell us too much rather than not enough.

So here's some questions for you which will help us understand the problems and hopefully find a solution.

1 - How did you set the tank up before adding fish? Did you leave it a few weeks before getting fish? Did you add fish food or ammonia or anything like that to the tank?

2 - What test kit are you using (brand name, is it liquid or test strips)?

3 - What are your results for pH, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate?

4 - How is the hospital tank set up, does it have a filter heater etc?

5 - How do you prepare the hospital tank before adding fish?

6 - What have you done to the hospital tank between infections?

7 - What are the water test readings from your hospital tank for pH, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate?

 

[loopy1]

Hi there,

welcome to the forum, firstly I'm sorry you've had such a hard induction to fishkeeping, it's a wonderful hobby but there's so much bad outdated advice floating around that beginners often end up with these sorts of problems. It's the main reason I come on this forum, try to help out those who've had a bad start.

One thing that's important to understand is that it's difficult for us to diagnose problems remotley without seeing the tank or taking readings ourselves, because of this when we ask a question we need you to answer in as much detail as is possible and as accuratley as you can, when we ask what are your levels we need the actual readings not just 'fine' or 'a bit high'. There are often small details which you may think are insiginificant but really are the key to unravelling the problems, so it's always better to tell us too much rather than not enough.

So here's some questions for you which will help us understand the problems and hopefully find a solution.

1 - How did you set the tank up before adding fish? Did you leave it a few weeks before getting fish? Did you add fish food or ammonia or anything like that to the tank?

2 - What test kit are you using (brand name, is it liquid or test strips)?

3 - What are your results for pH, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate?

4 - How is the hospital tank set up, does it have a filter heater etc?

5 - How do you prepare the hospital tank before adding fish?

6 - What have you done to the hospital tank between infections?

7 - What are the water test readings from your hospital tank for pH, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate?

Hi,

Thanks for replying!

I have just got to go out for work, but will send you all the info when i get back!

So glad that i have hopefully finally found someone that can help!!

 

[Miss Wiggle]

we can definatley help you out loopy, I probably won't be able to pick up this thread tonight when you've replied but will make sure I look at it in the morning, sure there will be plenty of people around who can help you out when they've got the full story.

 

[loopy1]

Hi there,

welcome to the forum, firstly I'm sorry you've had such a hard induction to fishkeeping, it's a wonderful hobby but there's so much bad outdated advice floating around that beginners often end up with these sorts of problems. It's the main reason I come on this forum, try to help out those who've had a bad start.

One thing that's important to understand is that it's difficult for us to diagnose problems remotley without seeing the tank or taking readings ourselves, because of this when we ask a question we need you to answer in as much detail as is possible and as accuratley as you can, when we ask what are your levels we need the actual readings not just 'fine' or 'a bit high'. There are often small details which you may think are insiginificant but really are the key to unravelling the problems, so it's always better to tell us too much rather than not enough.

So here's some questions for you which will help us understand the problems and hopefully find a solution.

1 - How did you set the tank up before adding fish? Did you leave it a few weeks before getting fish? Did you add fish food or ammonia or anything like that to the tank?

2 - What test kit are you using (brand name, is it liquid or test strips)?

3 - What are your results for pH, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate?

4 - How is the hospital tank set up, does it have a filter heater etc?

5 - How do you prepare the hospital tank before adding fish?

6 - What have you done to the hospital tank between infections?

7 - What are the water test readings from your hospital tank for pH, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate?

Hi,

Thanks for replying!

I have just got to go out for work, but will send you all the info when i get back!

So glad that i have hopefully finally found someone that can help!!

Back again -
1. yes i left the tank for about 5 weeks before adding any fish - was just adding stress zyme but no food or ammonia etc... Have had the biorb for about 10 mnths now.
2. Test kit is an API freshwater master test kit - liquids.
3. pH 8.2, Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 40ppm.
3. Hosp tank has air stone and heater - no filter. Have been doing approx 50% water changes every couple of days.
4. Just wash out hosp tank and stones etc.. in really hot water before storing between each use.
5. Nothing except hot water - although thought that the Myxazin that i keep putting in the hosp tank may help??

Thanks

 

[Miss Wiggle]

OK, first thing to note then is that the tank was not cycled before adding fish, leaving it without adding any ammonia will not prepare the tank adequatley for fish. That being said from your test results the cycle seems to have finished now so you're out of the woods from that danger, but it's probably what caused the first problems and if the fish haven't been able to recover then the problems caused by the cycle are still lingering on.

Here's a topic which explains all about cycling, what the different levels are and so on which will help you understand it all http/www.fishforums.net/content/New-to-t...eady-have-fish/

The lack of a filter on the hospital tank will not be helping, in such a small tank with no filter ammonia and nitrite will be building up (even with water changes every day) which is probably why fish are not recovering when they are in there, you would do better to keep fish in the main tank and treat that with Myaxin.

There are also stocking issues, despite everything you have read it's not at all advised to keep male and female fighters together, this will cause a great deal of stress to the fish, when fish are stressed they will struggle to recover from diseases, ever been at your wits end about something, picked up a cold and not been able to shift i for weeks? Same thing for the fish, when they're stressed and unhappy they're immune system is running low and they won't respond as well to medication.

You need to get another home for the male fighter, you can keep the female with guppies but not the male. He will be happy in a small tank (5gals or so) by himself if you want to keep him, otherwise you'll need to find him another home with a friend or return him to the fish shop.

 

[iankent]

if anyone can help, the people on here can! (i probably cant lol, but at least you've come to the right place!)

hope things start to improve for ya!!

 

[loopy1]

OK, first thing to note then is that the tank was not cycled before adding fish, leaving it without adding any ammonia will not prepare the tank adequatley for fish. That being said from your test results the cycle seems to have finished now so you're out of the woods from that danger, but it's probably what caused the first problems and if the fish haven't been able to recover then the problems caused by the cycle are still lingering on.

Here's a topic which explains all about cycling, what the different levels are and so on which will help you understand it all [URL="http/www.fishforums.net/content/New-to-t...eady-have-fish/"]http/www.fishforums.net/content/New-to-t...eady-have-fish/[/URL]

The lack of a filter on the hospital tank will not be helping, in such a small tank with no filter ammonia and nitrite will be building up (even with water changes every day) which is probably why fish are not recovering when they are in there, you would do better to keep fish in the main tank and treat that with Myaxin.

There are also stocking issues, despite everything you have read it's not at all advised to keep male and female fighters together, this will cause a great deal of stress to the fish, when fish are stressed they will struggle to recover from diseases, ever been at your wits end about something, picked up a cold and not been able to shift i for weeks? Same thing for the fish, when they're stressed and unhappy they're immune system is running low and they won't respond as well to medication.

You need to get another home for the male fighter, you can keep the female with guppies but not the male. He will be happy in a small tank (5gals or so) by himself if you want to keep him, otherwise you'll need to find him another home with a friend or return him to the fish shop.

Thanks,

Should i put the female back into the biorb now then? I could then get a smaller tank for the male to live in on his own. Will the female be alright with the guppies and tetras? Will the male be ok on his own without any company?

Why do you think that they have been together for months, and only mated once they were on their own in the small tank, and why do you think they ate all the eggs???

Is the high pH a concern?? I can't get it down no matter what buffers i add?? The guppies and tetras seem perfectly happy in that pH. Also, should i have a mix of sex of guppies or are they fine as they are - i have got 6 at the moment who are all pretty colours with flowing fins - i think they are all male? They are constantly playing and chasing one another round - does this sound ok to you? The tetras just sit around the back of the tank amongst the plants.

Also, i would like to get something else to replace the 2 females and the male that i have lost from the biorb - how many would you advise in a 60L biorb, and what fish should i get to go with the guppies, tetras and the one female fighter - i was thinking angel fish??

Thanks very much

if anyone can help, the people on here can! (i probably cant lol, but at least you've come to the right place!)

hope things start to improve for ya!!

Thanks!! The whole experience has been really stressful so far!!

 

[iankent]

Thanks!! The whole experience has been really stressful so far!!

it was stressful for me, and it went well, so I can only imagine! All worth it in the end though

 

[moll]

Thanks,

Should i put the female back into the biorb now then? I could then get a smaller tank for the male to live in on his own. Will the female be alright with the guppies and tetras? Will the male be ok on his own without any company?

Why do you think that they have been together for months, and only mated once they were on their own in the small tank, and why do you think they ate all the eggs???

Is the high pH a concern?? I can't get it down no matter what buffers i add?? The guppies and tetras seem perfectly happy in that pH. Also, should i have a mix of sex of guppies or are they fine as they are - i have got 6 at the moment who are all pretty colours with flowing fins - i think they are all male? They are constantly playing and chasing one another round - does this sound ok to you? The tetras just sit around the back of the tank amongst the plants.

Also, i would like to get something else to replace the 2 females and the male that i have lost from the biorb - how many would you advise in a 60L biorb, and what fish should i get to go with the guppies, tetras and the one female fighter - i was thinking angel fish??

Thanks very much

The male will be ok on his own you can get some company for him when the tank is well established don't worry about that now.

They need a surface area for the eggs so won't spawn in a biorb thats why it has happened in your hospital tank

You sound like you have all male guppies adding females would be a big mistake as you need 2-3 females for every male or else they will be hounded you don't have space for 12 females forget it for now

Angel fish need a biddeg tank they can get to 10cm+ fin to fin

Don't add any more fish for now worry about getting the fish you have sorted and well

Look for a 5 gal min tank with a heater and filter for your male betta the filter must not bee too strong

Once you are sorted and all the fish are healthy you can look at adding more but honestly it will make a stressful situation worse if you buy more now

Good luck with sorting your tanks.