Help on stocking

[Era101]

It can take a few months before fish show their true behaviour, 3 weeks is hardly any time for them to settle.

Ooh dang, yeah then I am be celebrating way too early. Will look at shuffling things around then. Although I might have to take a chance on it for a while. Planning to take another 55 gallon tank soon. Then I wouldn't have to give back any of my fish or keep taking apart the tank to catch the fish inside.

 

[Era101]

Your tanks look beautiful, but IMO bth your tanks will be overstocked with the fish numbers you are considering.

Also -others have made suggestions re: fish temperaments which will impact on the peace of your tanks eg not housing the betta with anything small and 'darty' because that's just asking for trouble, so I won't repeat what they've suggested.

Personally I'd house the betta alone in the smaller tank and make it a show piece - perhaps a couple of snails and a few shrimps in with him (but expect him to eat any "shrimplets" they produce). You seem to have lots of plants and hidey-holes - both the shrimp and the betta will love it

Have a think about the suggestions for stocking the bigger tank - and don't stock to the maximum. One day there will be a power cut, and your filter and aerator may be off for a few hours, and in a full occupancy tank that can mean a lot of dead fish! Give them a bit of (literal) breathing space. And swimming space, too.

Your tanks are lovely - please post more photos when you have you fish in.

Yeah I have been thinking about that as well, power outages can be a regular thing here in Bali.. what if I do a 50% wc during an outage? Would that safe the fish?

Yeah I'll definitely show it off a bit more, still waiting on the wood in the 10 gallon to sink as well. You can't really see it because of the lighting but there are still some massive stones on top to weigh them down.

 

[Era101]

I agree with essjay. We have had a few threads over the past months about members who had a similar situation, thinking their Betta was just fine with other fish...but they awoke one morning to find the Betta on a rampage killing other fish. Or the opposite can happen. These traits are programmed into the species and we are not going to change the DNA of the Betta or the gopurami or any other fish just because we want to have something contrary to their natural state. Individual fish can be contrary to the norm for the species, but not often. And it is not being humane to the fish to force them into situations that are not in their best interests.



Distilled water on its own should have a GH and KH of zero. Which is fine if you have soft water fish species. When you say you have managed to get the pH to 7.5, what exactly do you mean?

Maybe not distilled water then.. I don't know what kind of water it is called then. It's not mineral, tap or RO either. The base ph was about 7,4 but I had some problems before that somehow the ph rose 8,6 overnight. Figured out it was because of the type of rocks I used so I replaced those. The PH still rose after that but just a little, managed to combat the rise with peat moss so now it's stabile at 7,5 to 7,6

 

[Era101]

Whoa. Judging by the layout of the tanks, it looks like you've been doing this for years. Great job.

Thanks! I do have to admit that I didn't really spare any money on getting the plants and hardscape so that might have a made a difference as well.

 

[Era101]

Most slow moving Tetra do fine with dwarf gourami. Cardinals/ neons are often with dwarf gourami.
Also distilled water still needs to be de chlorinated as the chlorine is removed but not the chloramine the amine in chloramine is ammonia, which could be causing cloudiness. Dechlorinator will neutralize chlorine and chloramine.

Not sure if there is chloramine in there, it is technically still considered drinking water so it would be weird. But I checked all the different types of water that I had available first and this one didn't show any traces of ammonia. I still have aquasafe lying around so if it turns out it does contain chloramine I can just add that during wc's.

 

[Era101]

If I am not wrong, most Oto are wild caught. So, might be difficult for you to get them.
I guess you just have to wait until the LFS has new stock.

Some fish will show their aggressiveness and dominant when they become more mature but some fish will show aggressiveness even from young.

It's like keeping a young wild dog with the sheeps or a lion cub with sheeps. LOL.

Luckily/unluckily most fish here don't end up in the show tank until they are practically fully grown. I guess it's nice with the stocking options and not having to worry about how much space the fish will take up when fully grown. On the other hand it is shame they you can't see them fully develop their colours and personality as you see them grow.

I keep bothering all the local stores on a weekly base to see if they have some more oto as well as all the local fb groupsband communities so hopefully I can get some more soon. If it really does show to be problem getting them in a decent amount of time I just might hoard them and try to get them to breed. I know I'm not the only looking for these fish so I could help out some others, and make a decent profit at the same time. Oto fish here go for about 5 to 6 times the price of an angelfish.

 

[Lajos_Detari]

By the way, the Mosquito Rasboras which I recommended to you is from Kalimantan, Indonesia. Those sold are usually wild caught.

Boraras brigittae – Mosquito Rasbora (Rasbora urophthalma brigittae) — Seriously Fish

www.seriouslyfish.com

Take note that wild caught fish tend to carry parasites with them.
You may need to treat them when you bring them home.
One common disease is gill/skin flukes which you need the Praziquantel to treat them for about 1-2 months.
It will kill your fish if you don't treat them.

It will be good if you can quarantine your new fish for 2-3 weeks before putting them in your main tank.

 

[Lajos_Detari]

By the way, since you are in Bali, you may even consider to keep salt water fish or shrimps if you can catch them from the sea.

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

Luckily/unluckily most fish here don't end up in the show tank until they are practically fully grown. I guess it's nice with the stocking options and not having to worry about how much space the fish will take up when fully grown. On the other hand it is shame they you can't see them fully develop their colours and personality as you see them grow.

I keep bothering all the local stores on a weekly base to see if they have some more oto as well as all the local fb groupsband communities so hopefully I can get some more soon. If it really does show to be problem getting them in a decent amount of time I just might hoard them and try to get them to breed. I know I'm not the only looking for these fish so I could help out some others, and make a decent profit at the same time. Oto fish here go for about 5 to 6 times the price of an angelfish.

I suspect the problem with price of otos in Indonesia is due to high mortality rates in shipping. Even shipping them from Peru, where many are caught, to the US and UK which is relatively fast results in high motality rates, usually more than 50% apparently. Otos are sensitive and fragile, and cyanide is sometime used to stun and catch wild populations, before the fish are warehoused in huge holding tanks. Imagine how much food is available to a few hundred algae grazers all in the same trough, that may not recognise an algae wafer as food even. Then they're shipped to the county they're going to, which might mean 2-3 days in a bag without any food again, before any survivors go into clean shop tanks. Otos graze algae constantly, they're mostly starved by the time they arrive and they're incredibly stressed, so huge die offs.

I imagine it takes even longer to ship them to Indonesia, which probably means an even higher mortality rate. Even if the store buys them cheaply, if they buy 100 otos and only 30 or so have survived shipping and the first week in the store, they have to charge a high price for those remaining fish in order to even make their money back, let alone a profit.

Ottos are not easy to breed in captivity, let alone in numbers high enough to make a profit from them, but I wish you all the luck, and ask you to share your methods if you manage to breed them and have fry survive.

 

[LostBear]

If I am not wrong, most Oto are wild caught. So, might be difficult for you to get them.
I guess you just have to wait until the LFS has new stock.

Some fish will show their aggressiveness and dominant when they become more mature but some fish will show aggressiveness even from young.

It's like keeping a young wild dog with the sheeps or a lion cub with sheeps. LOL.

I think as well that in a strange environment many, if not most, fish will be subdued and cautious until they know they lie of the land. When they feel safe from predation, that is when they start to gain confidence and if they are aggressive fish, that is when you'll have trouble. And of course, by then, your smaller, more vulnerable fish will have gained confidence, too, and will have stopped hiding and will be prime targets for any "bully" that might be in the tank.

 

[LostBear]

I suspect the problem with price of otos in Indonesia is due to high mortality rates in shipping. Even shipping them from Peru, where many are caught, to the US and UK which is relatively fast results in high motality rates, usually more than 50% apparently. Otos are sensitive and fragile, and cyanide is sometime used to stun and catch wild populations, before the fish are warehoused in huge holding tanks. Imagine how much food is available to a few hundred algae grazers all in the same trough, that may not recognise an algae wafer as food even. Then they're shipped to the county they're going to, which might mean 2-3 days in a bag without any food again, before any survivors go into clean shop tanks. Otos graze algae constantly, they're mostly starved by the time they arrive and they're incredibly stressed, so huge die offs.

I imagine it takes even longer to ship them to Indonesia, which probably means an even higher mortality rate. Even if the store buys them cheaply, if they buy 100 otos and only 30 or so have survived shipping and the first week in the store, they have to charge a high price for those remaining fish in order to even make their money back, let alone a profit.

Ottos are not easy to breed in captivity, let alone in numbers high enough to make a profit from them, but I wish you all the luck, and ask you to share your methods if you manage to breed them and have fry survive.

The fate of wild caught otos breaks my heart. I think the 50% death rate is conservative - I've read reports of up to 70% among fish shipped to the UK. And then, even if they survive (and as you say are usually placed in barren, inhospitable tanks in pet shops) people will buy one or two, not realising or caring that they need to be in a shoal - at least 6, and that even 6 leaves them feeling vulnerable and distressed.

They are the most delightful little characters and deserve better.

 

[Era101]

By the way, the Mosquito Rasboras which I recommended to you is from Kalimantan, Indonesia. Those sold are usually wild caught.

Boraras brigittae – Mosquito Rasbora (Rasbora urophthalma brigittae) — Seriously Fish

www.seriouslyfish.com

Take note that wild caught fish tend to carry parasites with them.
You may need to treat them when you bring them home.
One common disease is gill/skin flukes which you need the Praziquantel to treat them for about 1-2 months.
It will kill your fish if you don't treat them.

It will be good if you can quarantine your new fish for 2-3 weeks before putting them in your main tank.

Yeah the 10 gallon is actually used for qt but I have about 8 shrimp and 6 neons in there now to keep the bacteria alive and grow stronger. Also not planning to add any more fish within the next few weeks. I really want to keep both tanks stabile for a few weeks before some new fish.

I have to admit that when I first heard mosquito rasboras I kind of lost interest because of the name. Clicked on the link you included and they are actually really nice looking fish! I just don't really like fish that small, I had galaxies for a while as well but you to get so close to glass to see their details.

 

[Era101]

By the way, since you are in Bali, you may even consider to keep salt water fish or shrimps if you can catch them from the sea.

I have thought of getting a salt water tank but they are so much more expensive than a freshwater one. Beyond that I am still a newbie and somehow a salt water tank seems very intimidating.

 

[Era101]

I suspect the problem with price of otos in Indonesia is due to high mortality rates in shipping. Even shipping them from Peru, where many are caught, to the US and UK which is relatively fast results in high motality rates, usually more than 50% apparently. Otos are sensitive and fragile, and cyanide is sometime used to stun and catch wild populations, before the fish are warehoused in huge holding tanks. Imagine how much food is available to a few hundred algae grazers all in the same trough, that may not recognise an algae wafer as food even. Then they're shipped to the county they're going to, which might mean 2-3 days in a bag without any food again, before any survivors go into clean shop tanks. Otos graze algae constantly, they're mostly starved by the time they arrive and they're incredibly stressed, so huge die offs.

I imagine it takes even longer to ship them to Indonesia, which probably means an even higher mortality rate. Even if the store buys them cheaply, if they buy 100 otos and only 30 or so have survived shipping and the first week in the store, they have to charge a high price for those remaining fish in order to even make their money back, let alone a profit.

Ottos are not easy to breed in captivity, let alone in numbers high enough to make a profit from them, but I wish you all the luck, and ask you to share your methods if you manage to breed them and have fry survive.

Wow... I never knew fish could be abused like that. You'd think they would have a more safe way to transport fish by now!

In that case it makes total sense that they are so expensive. It however makes no sense that people wouldn't be actively trying to breed as many of them as possible to not only drive down price and keep with demand. Even more so to avoid all the fish deaths that occur during the shipping!