Help Needed With My New Tank!

[Apotheosis]

Eep! Some help, advice or even possibly justififed berating is needed! I am complete newbie to aquariums, although my Mum had fish for years and years when I was a kid, but I'm not certain how much of her advice I should take as it seems to have changed over the last 20 years - so some help from people on this forum would be very welcome.

Some background:
I have a new 22 litre freshwater tropical tank (AquaOne). I set it up 3 or so weeks ago with cleaned gravel, a big piece of driftwood and a few plants including a lovely dwarf anubia, grass and some lace fern ie: lots of places for fishies to hide and play. I have used Aqua Cycle (a bacterial mix to help with the N cycling) and Stress Coat (API) to de-chlorinate, as well as adding some Florena fertilizer for the plants, which look great with new growth. I inherited snails when I bought the plants too which is awesome!!

I have been driving to my not so local but highly recommended aquarium for 'expert' advice. I *thought* I understood cycling and was attempting a fishless cycle, but since dodgy advice from aquarium staff I have made several mistakes. Firstly the water turned tea coloured - I assume this is due to the driftwood leaching tannins, although I didn't know that at the time, and said staff did not mention driftwood, just told me to change the water and rinse the filter... which I did. I replaced 70% of the water. After I did this I added some ground fish flakes to hopefully break down and produce some ammonia and get bacteria kicked in (I also used some Aqua Cycle to increase bacterial load). Once my ammonia readings were 0ppm, temp steady at ~24 degrees celcius and my pH steady at ~6.5 I went and bought 10 neon tetras, acclimating them to the tank as specified by the store.

27 hours later the poor neons still look nervous as hell!! They are grouped together under and behind the driftwood, and only came out to eat when I fed them. They are occasionally moving around in fast, sudden, erratic movements, but mostly just hide together, breathing very quickly, right at the bottom of the tank. Is this normal behaviour? Or is it stress being caused by high levels of say, nitrite or incorrect water hardness?? I don't have anyway to test for nitrite or water hardness (cardinal sin, I now know! Feeling a bit cruel right now ) as none of this was recommended to me by staff before or during set up, or even when I went in to ask whether I should purchase fish yesterday or if I needed to wait and /or purchase any more test kits. So now I am worried for my poor fishies - it is Sunday night so I can't take them to a store to look after them. I tried looking for red gills to indicate nitrite poisoning but I couldn't really tell. I have performed a 15% water change with de-chlorinated water, as recommended in case it is due to nitrite poisoning. Until the local pet shop open tomorrow I'm a bit stuck!

My questions are:
1. Is this normal behavior for neons in a new tank? Or is it caused by incorrect levels of something?
2. What is the best way to acclimate fish? I floated the bag for 10 mins, added a cup of tank water, then repeated, then netted fish out into tank. I didn't like netting them, I think I traumatized the poor little things!
3. Would getting tank buddies help or hinder with the nervous thing? I was thinking cat-fish (only 1 or 2) but I'm not adding anything until I'm certain about the N levels
4. What is the flossy stuff growing out from the plants, driftwood etc?
5. Can I do anything different for my poor little freaked out fishies?

Please help!

 

[Apotheosis]

Okay - I just read the guide for new posters, sorry I didn't follow the format, hopefully I covered everything - but here it is again in a less waffly format:


Tank size: 22L
pH: ~6.4
ammonia: 0ppm
nitrite: unknown (!!)
nitrate: unknown
kH:
gH:unknown, but followed recommendations on box for tropical fish (aqua-pics tropical / cold conditioning crystals, 1 teaspoon/ 8L of water)
tank temp: ~25 degrees celcius

Fish Symptoms (include full description including lesion, color, location, fish behavior):
Very nervous, hiding on bottom of tank behind driftwood. Appear to be breathing rapidly. Jerky, sharp movements when venturing out

Volume and Frequency of water changes:
Changed 15% today, was planning on weekly 25% changes

Chemical Additives or Media in your tank:
Sera Florena fertilizer for plants
Aqua Cycle beneficial bacteria
AmmoLock
API stress coat

Tank inhabitants:
10 neon tetras

Recent additions to your tank (living or decoration):
The tetras


Digital photo (include if possible):

 

[mattlee]

the first thing i would do is a 50% water change and reduce feeding amounts until you know your filter is cycled. also look for a test kit, many people here use API freshwater master kit. it test for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH. once you have this kit you can keep a good eye on what stage your filter is at in the cycling stage.
the tea coloured water will be due to the wood you can try removing it and boiling it a few times to remove some tannins or adding carbon to a filter will remove the colouring from the water but i wouldnt worry too much about it as your neons will like it, its just down to your personal taste. some people like it as its very natural and some people hate it and want perfectly clear water..... but it will not harm the fish one bit and will release acids and even soften the water slightly.
the fish you have chosen, neon tetras, are not ideal for a newly set up tank as they really need a stable mature tank as they can be quite sensitive to changing conditions etc and are really not advised for tanks less than 6 months old at least. as you were not to know this this isnt your fault but i would advise trying to return the fish before they take a turn for the bad.... also 10 in a 22L tank may be pushing it for stocking levels but they arent massive waste producers so you may just get away with it with good husbandry on the tank but i would think twice about adding more fish as this may cause more trouble...
introducing fish is stressfull for them and they will hide away for a while until they get used to their new home but it sounds like you did it ok, as long as the bag is in the tank floating so the tank water and the bag water reach the same temp the fish wont get any shock due to different temps in the water. adding tank water to the bag when the temps are matched gets the fish used to the water they are about to be released into. the slower and more carefull you can be doing this the better the fish will adapt to your tank. just dont take too long as the bag water is unfiltered and the fish may have poo'd in the bag from stress etc after being netted at the lfs.
10 neons is a good number to have as they prefer to be in groups, the bigger the better really but obviously depends on tank size etc. there is a general rule about stocking levels for any tank that is 1 inch of adult size fish per gallon of water held in the tank. this rule is really just a guide as some fish will produce alot more waste than others. for example a small group of 4/5 neon tetra will not have such an effect on the filter as a 5 inch plec will as the plec is a massive waste producer. so its not really a set in stone rule more of a guide to help you out when stocking a tank. a 22L tank is 4/5 gallon so you are looking at 4-5 inches of fish but as i said this depends on the waste levels of the fish. also the filtration on the tank may help add more fish if its well over filtered then it will handle more waste levels but also remember the fish need room to swim and be happy etc.

the flossy stuff on the plants.... can we have a pic or more detailed description please? what colour is it? where is it? etc etc

i hope i have helped you a little, and good luck

 

[Apotheosis]

the first thing i would do is a 50% water change and reduce feeding amounts until you know your filter is cycled. also look for a test kit, many people here use API freshwater master kit. it test for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH. once you have this kit you can keep a good eye on what stage your filter is at in the cycling stage.
the tea coloured water will be due to the wood you can try removing it and boiling it a few times to remove some tannins or adding carbon to a filter will remove the colouring from the water but i wouldnt worry too much about it as your neons will like it, its just down to your personal taste. some people like it as its very natural and some people hate it and want perfectly clear water..... but it will not harm the fish one bit and will release acids and even soften the water slightly.
the fish you have chosen, neon tetras, are not ideal for a newly set up tank as they really need a stable mature tank as they can be quite sensitive to changing conditions etc and are really not advised for tanks less than 6 months old at least. as you were not to know this this isnt your fault but i would advise trying to return the fish before they take a turn for the bad.... also 10 in a 22L tank may be pushing it for stocking levels but they arent massive waste producers so you may just get away with it with good husbandry on the tank but i would think twice about adding more fish as this may cause more trouble...
introducing fish is stressfull for them and they will hide away for a while until they get used to their new home but it sounds like you did it ok, as long as the bag is in the tank floating so the tank water and the bag water reach the same temp the fish wont get any shock due to different temps in the water. adding tank water to the bag when the temps are matched gets the fish used to the water they are about to be released into. the slower and more carefull you can be doing this the better the fish will adapt to your tank. just dont take too long as the bag water is unfiltered and the fish may have poo'd in the bag from stress etc after being netted at the lfs.
10 neons is a good number to have as they prefer to be in groups, the bigger the better really but obviously depends on tank size etc. there is a general rule about stocking levels for any tank that is 1 inch of adult size fish per gallon of water held in the tank. this rule is really just a guide as some fish will produce alot more waste than others. for example a small group of 4/5 neon tetra will not have such an effect on the filter as a 5 inch plec will as the plec is a massive waste producer. so its not really a set in stone rule more of a guide to help you out when stocking a tank. a 22L tank is 4/5 gallon so you are looking at 4-5 inches of fish but as i said this depends on the waste levels of the fish. also the filtration on the tank may help add more fish if its well over filtered then it will handle more waste levels but also remember the fish need room to swim and be happy etc.

the flossy stuff on the plants.... can we have a pic or more detailed description please? what colour is it? where is it? etc etc

i hope i have helped you a little, and good luck

Thanks!! I did the water change straight away - since then some of them have been swimming about a bit more, but still looking stressed, and the swimmers have been on their own, which has me worried - but still, mostly just hiding.

I've attached 2 pics of my plants - one is a red-purple plant (forgot the name of it) which I didn't notice until today has brown marks on it, I've also included a pic of the roots of my anubia (with light brown 'floss', centre of image, a bit out of focus). You can also see in the first image some browning leaves on two of my other plants, this happened when I first planted them, probably because (a) I was not particularly gentle with it an (b) I couldn't afford fertilizer for the first few days and they suffered a bit. There is new growth now though on all of my plants and they are looking pretty good, just with the browny leaves... I have to admit I'm a bit shocked by the prices of everything!! It will be worth it though - I'll try and find a master kit (never mentioned to me... ugh, sales people suck!) or maybe try and get the parts I don't have already
The flossy stuff it trailing off the leaves and roots of plants, as well as what looks like a fine layer on the broad leaves of the purple plant.

re: tea coloured water: I actually quite like it and I'd read before that the tetra will too so I don't really have an issue with it

 

[mattlee]

take a look at this to see if it matches anything here.....

http/www.theplantedtank.co.uk/algae.htm

 

[Apotheosis]

take a look at this to see if it matches anything here.....

http/www.theplantedtank.co.uk/algae.htm

Thanks, yet again, for the advice!!

It doesn't really match anything on the site, I will keep an eye on it and maybe purchase some of the recommended products anyway.

A few hours on, and the neons seemed to be acting more normally - of course, I turned on the tank light and they swam back to their hiding spot! - So I'm keeping my fingers crossed that they are just being exceptionally nervous! I will get a test kit first thing tomorrow morning and keep an eye on things though

 

[Apotheosis]

Hi again - so I went out and bought some more test kits

Nitrite - 0
Ammonium - 0
pH is down to 6, but that I can adjust easily
The water is a litttle hard, but again - that is an easy fix, especially as I work in a lab and have access to unlimited distilled water.

I also went to my local pet store and discovered they have a great range and a number of fish specialists, so pretty stoked about that
My fishies are looking a bit happier today, but still hiding a lot - guess they are just a bit timid! But I will keep a careful eye on all levels over the next few weeks

Thanks for the help and support Mattlee,

-A.

 

[Big_eyes]

and a number of fish specialists

Just be careful as everybody that works even within sight of fish tanks seem to think they're a specialist

 

[Apotheosis]

Lol - I made sure I asked for someone that had owned fish at home for a while

But now I have more issues!! My neons looked fantastic, swimming around, I thought: yay! They have settled in - now two hours later I think they are dying!!

They are floating about, unable to stay upright (some more than others), getting pushed about by the flow of the filter... I netted out the really bad guy into some treated water while I changed about a quarter of it - the rest of them immediately looked better after the water (and I put him back too) but now they still don't look great

pH: 6.5
Temp: 25
Nitrite:0
Ammonium: slightly above 0ppm, but I added some ammo lock
Water hardness is perfect.....

what is going on? I've lost one little guy, he is just lying on the bottom of the tank - the others look okay, none of them are gasping at the surface or anything...
wait, just checked again - one is twitching constantly against the glass and the thermometer I am feeling like an evil murderer right about now!

I should add that I used also used some flourish excel for my plants
Help?....

 

[Apotheosis]

Three of my neons have died, and the others don't look good - water stats are all the same.... I'm going to do another water change just to make sure.

They have a new symptom, whitish, ragged edges on their fins - not sure if its fungal or damage from bashing into the filter, a lot of them (the ones not hiding in plants) can't seem to swim away from it... I just did a search of the house and I don't have anything useful to block the filter, I'll move some plants in front of it to screen it some more. From reading the guide to diseases it sounds like they might have swim bladder too, as they are resting on the bottom and seem incapable of resisting the pull of the filter... I just don't know!! I have raised the temp to 30 to try and stave off infection, if it's that - why does this happen at night when nothing is open?!?!


When is the time to help my fish off to the big Amazonian river in the sky?

 

[Jenste]

neon tetras should never be added to a tank that has been established less than 6 months - - they need the stability and good bacteria only an established tank can offer - - neons are also carriers of "neon tetra disease" - - try looking it up and see if it matches your fish's symptoms




fingers crossed the rest of your little guys make it!!!

 

[Apotheosis]

neon tetras should never be added to a tank that has been established less than 6 months - - they need the stability and good bacteria only an established tank can offer - - neons are also carriers of "neon tetra disease" - - try looking it up and see if it matches your fish's symptoms




fingers crossed the rest of your little guys make it!!!

Thanks fish addict - this I have learned (no thanks to aquarium staff).... Hmmm, just had a look and it doesn't seem to fit neon tetra disease, no white cysts.
If the worst happens and none of them make it (I don't think the store will mind them for me now )... should I bother getting more fish? Or, after my tank has done a proper fishless cycle - what should I start with?....

 

[Jenste]

22 liters is just about 5-6 gallons...it would make a very nice male betta tank (for 1 betta), african dwarf frogs, maybe so glo fish (look similar in body shape to neon tetras but come in vibrant yellow, green, orange, and pink colors), shrimp, maybe a trio of male guppies (sometimes also slightly fragile in a newer tank but not as fragile as neons)...

I will try and think of more for you but that is just a tiny list off the top of my head

 

[Apotheosis]

Hi

Not sure if people do followups on here - BUT, I'm going to

4 of my neons died in a day - the rest have been cool until one dies last week from a fungal thing, I have been treating the rest of them since then and they seem okay REALLY hoping the disease treatment didn't wipe out all the good bacteria in the tank. I would like to get more neons to keep the five I have left company but I'm not getting any mroe fishies till i'm absolutely certain everything is okay!!

Thanks for all the help and advice,

A.