Help me diagnose my ammonia spike

[jonnyc88]

In a tank with no live plants, increasing nitrate shows that the second stage of cycling is underway. However, plants change the process of cycling. If there are enough plants to take up all the ammonia made by the fish, there would be no reading for ammonia - or nitrite or nitrate as plants turn ammonia into protein rather than nitrite. Bacteria will grow slowly but not nearly as many as in a tank with no live plants. In a tank with live plants, but not quite enough of them to deal with the ammonia made by the fish, the left over ammonia will be turned into nitrite then nitrate.

Whenever there are fish in a tank, if there is a reading for ammonia or nitrite, water changes need to be done.

Excellent explanation. Thanks!

Really getting good exercise with all these water changes

 

[jonnyc88]

Tested today and ammonia is zero however nitrite climbed slightly to 0.25ppm. I've been doing 50%-60% water changes daily.

I've been doing some reading and it does say it's important to change water during a cycle to prevent toxic build-up of ammonia and nitrites.
However it seems the recommendation is to do smaller, frequent water changes is better so I will reduce to about 20-30% daily changes.

I've also came accross posts by Seachem which seems to suggest not doing water change during the cycle (ammonia and nitrite are farily low, about 0.25ppm) and just rely on dosing with Prime.
What are your thoughts?

- Seachem Support Forums

 

[Essjay]

I would still do the water change. Prime's detoxification effect wears off after about 24 hours. I notice that your link says to stop doing water changes and add Prime every 48 hours. This is not a good idea, Prime should only be used to treat new water; it should not be used like a medication no matter what they say in the link.
They say water changes disturb the growing bacteria colonies - they don't, provided the new water is treated with dechlorinator.

 

[seangee]

I notice that your link says to stop doing water changes and add Prime every 48 hours.

Don't forget that their job is to maximise sales.

 

[jonnyc88]

Yes I will keep doing water changes until the cycle completes. Perhaps a bit less, 20-30% as I’m doing daily changes.

I’ve been researching similar cases where there are zero ammonia and very low nitrites today and came across that thread. There were also other threads which suggests 3 days water changes during cycle unless nitrites are above 0.25ppm.

I take readings immediately after water change and as expected zero ammonia and zero nitrite with very low nitrates. (I’ve used strip test instead of API test as it’s bit of hassle for nitrates but I’ll start using API now to monitor the 3 parameters)

I take readings again about 12 hours after water change and get 0 ammonia, 0.25 nitrites and about 10ppm nitrates.

I seem to be getting consistent values of 0 ammonia, 0.25ppm nitrite and about 10ppm nitrate for 3 days now so hopefully cycle has started.

 

[seangee]

You are probably about to get a flood of posts telling you strips aren't accurate. I do use them for nitrites. My visual test is white = 0, anything else = change water or test with the liquid test. IMO its accurate enough for that.

Oh and as you are testing daily: if you cut your strips in half length ways using clean dry scissors you will have twice as many

 

[jonnyc88]

Did a smaller 40% water change today and that brought nitrite down from 0.25 to 0ppm. Nitrate didn’t budge much remains about 10ppm.

Interesting to see readings tomorrow. I’m also leaning towards perhaps 3 days water change if nitrite remains about 0.25ppm max.

 

[jonnyc88]

In a tank with live plants, but not quite enough of them to deal with the ammonia made by the fish, the left over ammonia will be turned into nitrite then nitrate.

Whenever there are fish in a tank, if there is a reading for ammonia or nitrite, water changes need to be done.

Sounds like my current situation. As nitrite is quite low (0.25ppm) perhaps they are in the process of converting to nitrate ?

 

[jonnyc88]

Still doing daily water changes and starting to see some results. Ammonia seems to be zero now and nitrite hovers about 0.25ppm.

However nitrate is creeping up to 40ppm.

Thinking of reducing feeding to only every other day. What are your thoughts in this?

 

[Essjay]

Feeding every other day will help keep ammonia and nitrite low.

But your nitrate is quite high. Since you reported nitrate as low as 5 ppm at the beginning of the thread, I assume your tap water nitrate is also low? Can you test your tap water for nitrate and tell us the result please.

Nitrate should be kept below 20 ppm. Some regions have higher than this in their tap water but if it's lower it should be easy to keep nitrate below 20 ppm. If you are doing daily water changes with tap water with low nitrate, it shouldn't be getting to 40 ppm.

Some of the reasons for high nitrate include:
Too many fish making a lot of ammonia which is converted into a lot of nitrate
Feeding too much food - uneaten food decomposes to make ammonia which is turned into nitrate
Not cleaning the bottom of the tank, including deep cleaning gravel - fish poo and uneaten food decomposing to make ammonia etc
Not cleaning the filter - fish poo and uneaten food decomposing in there.
All of these will also lead to ammonia and nitrite in the water until enough bacteria have grown to deal with them.
The final cause of high nitrate is not doing enough water changes, but I don't think this is happening here.

 

[jonnyc88]

Thanks @essjay.

Just did a 50% water change.

Before change:
Ammonia : 0ppm
Nitrite : 0.25ppm
Nitrate : Between 20-40ppm. Definitely no dark enough to be 40 but slightly darker than 20ppm

After change:
Ammonia : 0ppm
Nitrite : 0ppm
Nitrate : 20ppm

Tested tap water for Nitrate and it’s just over 10ppm. It’s definitely orange and close to the tank water after testing, just slightly lighter.

Surprised our tap water has such high nitrates. Perhaps it’s the heat?

I’ll probably skip feeding today and test water tomorrow.

 

[Essjay]

UK legislation allows up to 50 ppm nitrate in drinking water. It come from agricultural run off in the region where the water originates, so even cities can have high nitrate if the water is from a reservoir or river in an agricultural region.

10 ppm is the lowest you get tank nitrate by water changes. Anything over that in the tank is made by the filter bacteria. This is why live plants can help - with enough live plants all the ammonia made in the tank is taken up by the plants so there is no ammonia left to be converted into nitrate.

 

[jonnyc88]

Tested water today and since yesterday the results are finally there!

Ammonia: 0ppm
Nitrite: 0ppm
Nitrate: 10-20ppm

So happy
I’ll skip water change today and will test again tomorrow. Fingers crossed it stays that way.

Not sure if it’s coincidence but I’ve added Seachem Stability during last 2 water changes and that seems to help.

 

[Essjay]

I hope your ammonia of 10 to 20 is supposed to be nitrate

That's looking much better. Keep an eye on those levels for a few days yet - better safe than sorry

 

[jonnyc88]

I hope your ammonia of 10 to 20 is supposed to be nitrate

That's looking much better. Keep an eye on those levels for a few days yet - better safe than sorry

Yes, was supposed to be Nitrate
I will still do daily water tests and fingers crossed everything is ok and I’ll revert to weekly water changes.