Help Gulping Black Widows

[Dred]

Hi there, just got a new tank 30"x12"x16", UG filtration etc. currently have 5 black widows to condition the tank as advised by the shop. They told me to wait 3 weeks before testing for nitrates etc and introducing any further fish.

Soon after we got the tank, one of the fish stated Gulping and is not as active as the others, I called the shop and they said it was stress of a new tank and not to worry, well the thing is dead now, and I have just noticed that another one has started to Gulp and does not want to feed and just wanders around on his own, whats going on.

Please Help someone.

 

[enchanted]

Your fish store wasn't right.

First you should be testing Ammonia Nitrite and Nitrate daily.

Since you are doing a fish cycle you should also be doing water changes.


Test the Ammonia, Nitritre, and Nitrate and post the results here, then we can help.

 

[Dred]

Hi thanks for the quick response, the tank is only a week old the water was treated with a stress coat and I was planning on doing a 25% water change every two weeks; so that is in a weeks time.

I will go a buy a water test kit tomorrow and will then post the results.

Should I be doing a water change sooner??

 

[enchanted]

If you have ill fish you should be getting that test kit now.

If you can't get the test kit today do a 25% water change right now.

There is a good possibility you have extremely high ammonia. Also, you have to test to see what your Ammonia, Nitrites, and PH are. PH Affects the kill level of Ammonia. If you get over this level your fish will die.

On average you should never let your ammonia get over 1 at the most.

 

[skimpy]

I agree stongly with what has been suggested. You lfs was definately wrong and beware in future not all lfs's give good advice and some give VERY bad advice always check out what you have been told with someone.

Cycling is a very dodgy time for fish and you really do need to have test kits, you need to test everyday until the end of you cycle. If you are cycling with fish it will most probably be about 8 weeks (but could be less or more depending on tank).

You quoted "fish started gulping", assuming you mean at the surface, this is a sign of ammonia, if the fish start darting about it could be nitrIte and if they lay at the bottom it could be your PH. If you could not get a test kit today as was suggested, then I would follow the advice and do a water change, get a test kit tomorrow and post your results.

When you post your results also post, how long tank has been running and what fish you have it will be very helpful.

General rules when cycling, never add any fish while ammonia or NitrIte is present and it can and will be up and down over the cycle period. Only add new fish when reading are at zero. When you do add fish, only add 3 at a time because they increased ammonia they produce will cause a new spike for you.

If possible test water everyday and never let you reading go over 1 ppm in ammonia or NitrIte, but keep a lot lower if possible. Do as many water changes as is necessary to keep levels down.

Do not feed or feed very little when ammonia or NitrIte is present.

Read as much as you can on cycling and the nitrogen cycle so that you begin to understand and hopefully go back to the *!$?* lfs and tell him he is wrong to give out that type of advice. There is a lot of information that will help in the top pinned notices of the beginners section and here is the Nitrogen Cycle for you to read.

Good luck and let us know how you get on.

 

[Dred]

Good morning! I'm posting this on behalf of my husband, so I hope I get it right. we completed a 20% water change last night and this morning I dashed to our nearest pet shop and bought a Nitrite test kit and an ammonia test kit, results as follows. Nitrite between 0 and 0.25 (not quite as dark as 0.25), ammonia 0. I'll give you a slightly fuller description of fish symptoms. they stop feeding, segregate themselves from the rest, gulp for air (not at the surface) all the time while swimming. swimming slows, become lethargic, sit at the bottom, keel over and die. we have lost one and another has now stopped feeding and is doing the rapid breathing bit! should we be testing anything else? pH or nitrate? Do I need to do another mercy dash to the pet shop? thanks for all your help.
Tank has been set up only 8 days & we have black widdows (5 originally, now only 4).

 

[clutterydrawer]

hiya

you tank is "cycling" which is the process of establishing the bacteria which carry out the nitrogen cycle. these bacteria get rid of ammonia and nitrIte which are produced from fish waste. these chemicals are very poisonous to fish.

until the bacteria are established, you will have elevated levels of these chemicals which is why your fish are ill. As skimpy said, you need to test your water every day and do water changes to keep the levels down.

There is an excellent topic here:

http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=10099

which explains everything you need to know about the "cycling" period of a fishtank. HTH.

 

[Dred]

Hi
thanks to everyone for your help and advice. Have read both items posted on tank cycling. Will do another water change today and will keep testing ammonia & nitrite levels daily. have quite good oxygenation (I think!) surface of water constantly moving from streams of bubbles produced in 2 areas at back of tank. fish seem to love this, they have silly five minutes where they rush through the streams of bubbles and look like they are surfing the currents they produce (except for fish face one, whom I presume is ill). both articles talk about introducing oxygenating plants, however I read somewhere esle about not introducing new plants immediately but having them in a seperate tank incase they carry diseases or parasites? what does anyone think, I'm getting a bit of info overload. not difficult for a mum with young children!

thanks

 

[skimpy]

Hi Dred, as clutterydrawer said you are definately cycling your tank, it will be a bit up and down for now. Not sure about black widows (never had any) but some fish are more hardy than others when cycling, but keep up with the water changes and you will get through this in the end.

I know it is all very confusing when you start out but I promise it will get easier. At this moment in time you have got the most important tests, ammonia and NitrIte so no urgency but I would advise in time to get the NitrAte and PH tests.

I understand your worry about plants, but if you have a filter and bubbles the fish should be fine with regard to oxygen. Plants do however help, they give hiding places for fish who are a bit timid and later on when your tank is cycled and producing NitrAte the plants will help to keep the NitrAte's down. People have different opinions, but personally I would not hesitate to have plants even in the cycling stage but I would make sure I buy them from a lfs that I trust.

You are doing really great, no need to overload yourself, just ask on the forum if you get unsure. Keep up the water changes, let us know how you go and good luck to you.

 

[SnowyzMom]

I agree, good luck with your tank cycling and a kick in the heinie to that lfs for their dumb advice. Anyways, I am wondering if a product like Easy Balance, (which does NOT take the place of regular tank care and proper setup, I don't care what they say!) might help short term by introducing beneficial bacteria into your tank. My daughter was very skeptical of it but tried it with a new tank she was setting up and it helped the tank levels to settle really quickly. It comes in a yellow squirt bottle with a blue label. Others may have varying opinions on this but it is an option for short term relief I hope. I really really hope your fish make it.

 

[clutterydrawer]

IMO plants would be a great idea at this point because they not only add oxygen but consume nitrate and nitrite (or nitate and ammonia.....i forget which...)

so if you can get hold of some hardy fast growing plants such as hornwort, elodea, hygrophila etc they could be useful. i've nevr worried about them adding parasties to the tnak (maybe I should've??!) but you may get snails hitching a ride with plants. sadly this is a risk you have to take if you want plants. good luck.

 

[SnowyzMom]

Totally agree on the live plants...they seem to REALLY help in keeping a tank balanced and the fish healthy. Mine just LOVE having live plants. Believe it or not, if you can't get regular aquarium plants, that "Lucky Bamboo" you can buy in stores(bundles of bamboo sticks with leaf shoots) works great in aquariums, does NOT rot and seems to thrive. Don't ask me why. We bought some when no live plants were available except marsh plants which keep rotting !

When we finally got to a big city we bought several clumps of live plants from a GOOD lfs. They are thriving, so are all the fish and the two types of snails that hitchhiked along with the plants are also thriving, keeping my tanks shiny clean and the fish don't mind them at all. (secretly I think they chow down on fresh escargot sometimes!) Oh and the Bamboo are still in all 3 tanks and doing nicely. One thing about them, they aren't growing all over the place like the live aquarium plants are, so they're easier to keep from overcrowding the tanks, but the fish do love hiding in the live aquarium plants.

 

[Dred]

Hi (dred's wife again)

just completed water change and have tested ammonia and nitrite levels again - both 0, hurray!!

fed fish just small amount (not fed for 2 days as advised) - 'surfer dude' and 'where's my grub' ate very well, but 'fish face' and 'is there anybody out there' (always looking out of front of tank) did not eat. Also 'is there anybody out there' is now doing the 'fish face' thing. Being a complete beginner perhaps this is quite normal, although the other two fish don't seem to do it.

I will try to buy some plants tomorrow.

Thanks

 

[bigfish]

When you filled up the tank with water did you add decholrinator? i know it's sounds like a stupid question but some people don't realise that fish can't live in cholrinated water.

Just keep testing and do water changes to keep ammonia down and to ease the stress on the black widows.

Good luck and welcome to fish forums

 

[Dred]

Hi (dreds wife again)
I seem to be taking this over from my husband!
yes I am using something to dechlorinate the water, we used it when we first set up the tank and with each subsequent water change.
fish face has stopped gasping this morning and they all look very lively, dashing about the tank.
thanks again everyone I think you have cracked it for us, but I will continue to do water changes and monitor ammonia and nitrite.

thanks