Help....feeling Shell Shocked!

[Ariana2]

I will start will hello from a new user in the UK and with gratitude in anticipation of any help you can offer.

I have been keeping fish for 6 years (tho without a great deal of knowledge I now realise) ....starting with a tank with 2 goldfish and 2 cloud minnows for my daughter....no problems
I was given a small 40 litre tank to start a tropical collection which I did for 5 years without problem but when an angel fish was suddenly looking very large I upgraded to a 125 litre tank at the begining of December 07
I used the old gravel and live plants and ran the tank for 4 days before transfering the fish
The water quality seemed fine throughout
I was intending leaving it about 6 weeks before adding new fish but I was bought 2 'surprise' Rams
After another week I added a common Plec due to an algae problem and 5 guppies
within a couple of days both Rams had died , then the Angel fish looked sick with pop eyes and quickly died followed by 4 guppies and a couple of old neon tetras as no symptoms were obvious on any these
I put this down to stress so bought a new angel fish after asking advice at the local fish shop who agreed it was probably just stress
so in the tank were _
1 clown loach
2 plattys
4 neon tetras
1 remaining guppy
common plec and new angel fish

All was well over New year and into January then suddenly a couple of days ago I noticed the plec had a red streak on his tail ....I had noticed the angel fish having a bit of a nip at him the day earlier so wondered if it was that
I kept an eye and nothing changed until today..... his whole tail had gone with around 1cm of pale flesh into the body with red blood patches....he was gasping so thought it kinder to euthanise
The remaining guppy seems to have a little erosion on its tail fin and the angel fish looks like its top fin is scraggly and starting to rot

I am heartbroken and seeing these fish dying one by one....I am wondering if there is something bacterial going on in the tank and what on earth I should do next?
I must be doing something wrong here and how do I halt what is going on as I am feeling responsible for the deaths of these fish and shell shocked at how quickly it is all happening



Tank size: 125 litres
pH: 7.5
ammonia: 0
nitrite: 0
nitrate: 40
kH:80
gH:120
tank temp:76f

Fish Symptoms (include full description including lesion, color, location, fish behavior): pop eye on old angel fish, fin rot on others, symptomless death in others

Volume and Frequency of water changes: 25% weekly

Chemical Additives or Media in your tank: carbon filter pad in main filter

Tank inhabitants: current after removal of plec this afternoon....angel fish, clown loach, 1 guppy, 4 neon tetras, 2 plattys

Recent additions to your tank (living or decoration): new plants , rock and stones added at set up in December

Exposure to chemicals: none


many thanks

 

[WILDER]

The clown loach can't be kept on his own they like company of there own kind they need to be kept in groups.
Plus they need larger tanks of around 75 gallons even more to be honest.

You have a bad bacteria infection in your tank.
Popeye is bacterial.
Red streaking and blood patches, septicemia.

Septicemia is very hard to cure once it has advanced, the bacteria from the fish can enter the tank.

What med have you used?

 

[Ariana2]

The clown loach can't be kept on his own they like company of there own kind they need to be kept in groups.
Plus they need larger tanks of around 75 gallons even more to be honest.

You have a bad bacteria infection in your tank.
Popeye is bacterial.
Red streaking and blood patches, septicemia.

Septicemia is very hard to cure once it has advanced, the bacteria from the fish can enter the tank.

What med have you used?

The clown loach was 'given' to me about 4 years ago and I have read that they like to be in groups but worried about the tank size for having any more.
After the pop eye symptom I went to my local fish shop for advice and medication......as there were no symptoms on the other fish I was reassured it was probably stress and they adviced against putting medicine in the water and suggested the carbon filters which I have been using....and everything settled and seemed fine for a couple of weeks..... til this last day or two when things seem to have started up again
what medication should I use (UK) and can I treat the whole tank and will that destroy the 'good' bacteria too?

thanks

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

Carbon sponges actually remove chemicals from the water, they are primarily used to remove medications from the tank after a course of treatment has been finished, so you need to take out the carbon sponges before you medicate the tank.
I've used "anti internal bacteria" by Interpet to successfully treat septicemia in the past numerous times so i would recommend this . How often are you doing water changes on the tank and how much are you taking out on average plus do you use dechlorinator?

 

[Ariana2]

Carbon sponges actually remove chemicals from the water, they are primarily used to remove medications from the tank after a course of treatment has been finished, so you need to take out the carbon sponges before you medicate the tank.
I've used "anti internal bacteria" by Interpet to successfully treat septicemia in the past numerous times so i would recommend this . How often are you doing water changes on the tank and how much are you taking out on average plus do you use dechlorinator?

I have been changing 25% weekly and yes always use a dechlorinator
I am wondering if the Rams which were bought as a surprise Chriistmas present brought something nasty with them....they came from a garden centre apparently
why are some fish healthy and others not tho?
And will it eventually sweep through the whole tank and how can I prevent that?

thanks

 

[WILDER]

Thats why its so important to issolate mew fish for 4 weeks to make sure they are not fetching anything nasty into the the tank.
Septicemia can be caused by bad water quality and dirty water, or the bacteria enters the fish throughs wounds

Bacteria lives in the background in your tanks this is why its so important to keep up with maintance.
Get you some info

Taken from this link, http/www.goldfishinfo.com/ailment1.htm
Septicemia- A condition where bacteria gains entry into the fish's body through wounds or the stomach. The bacteria can cause failure of the internal organs, damage to body tissue, blood vessels, and result in recognizable symptoms. This often results in internal bleeding, due to the fluids filling the fish's abdomen. Dropsy may occur as a result. The problem with this type of situation is that the bacteria is present inside the fish and safe from the antibiotics you would place in the water. It could be the result of another infection or caused from dirty water. Symptoms: Clamped fins, bulging eyes, red bellies, eroding, reddened fins, lack of appetite, and fish showing signs of being sluggish or exhibiting sluggish behavior. Treatment: It is best to feed the fish antibiotics rather than using the kinds you place directly into the water. Placing the ill fish in a hospital tank is advised while administering treatment. Check your local petstore for some good medicated food or check for antibiotics if necessary. Septicemia is fatal if not treated immediately! top

 

[Ariana2]

Thats why its so important to issolate mew fish for 4 weeks to make sure they are not fetching anything nasty into the the tank.
Septicemia can be caused by bad water quality and dirty water, or the bacteria enters the fish throughs wounds

Bacteria lives in the background in your tanks this is why its so important to keep up with maintance.
Get you some info

Taken from this link, [URL="http/www.goldfishinfo.com/ailment1.htm"]http/www.goldfishinfo.com/ailment1.htm[/URL]
Septicemia- A condition where bacteria gains entry into the fish's body through wounds or the stomach. The bacteria can cause failure of the internal organs, damage to body tissue, blood vessels, and result in recognizable symptoms. This often results in internal bleeding, due to the fluids filling the fish's abdomen. Dropsy may occur as a result. The problem with this type of situation is that the bacteria is present inside the fish and safe from the antibiotics you would place in the water. It could be the result of another infection or caused from dirty water. Symptoms: Clamped fins, bulging eyes, red bellies, eroding, reddened fins, lack of appetite, and fish showing signs of being sluggish or exhibiting sluggish behavior. Treatment: It is best to feed the fish antibiotics rather than using the kinds you place directly into the water. Placing the ill fish in a hospital tank is advised while administering treatment. Check your local petstore for some good medicated food or check for antibiotics if necessary. Septicemia is fatal if not treated immediately! top

Thankyou for replying
Can the water be dirty/bad?
I have been changing 25% weekly and hoovering the gravel at the same time
Every 2 weeks I have removed the rocks and stones and cleaned them from algae
I have been careful not to overfeed and removed any stray leaves from the live plants as soon as I have spotted them floating
The water seems well ariated with a strong pump and a bubble river

If I medicate the tank.....will that kill the 'good' bacteria too

 

[WILDER]

Anti internal bacteria med by interpet shouldn't knock the filter, but it can abit.
Its not that strong the med so you really have to be on top of things.
A mild case of septicemia the med might work, but if its advanced no hope of saving the fish.

Yes dirty water can cause septicemia.
The fish could of already been ill at the lfs.
The problem is that the fish with septicemia the bacteria can enter the tank from the fish, this is why it's best to issolate the sick fish for treatment.

I would do a water change and add the med to the tank.

 

[Ariana2]

Anti internal bacteria med by interpet shouldn't knock the filter, but it can abit.
Its not that strong the med so you really have to be on top of things.
A mild case of septicemia the med might work, but if its advanced no hope of saving the fish.

Yes dirty water can cause septicemia.
The fish could of already been ill at the lfs.
The problem is that the fish with septicemia the bacteria can enter the tank from the fish, this is why it's best to issolate the sick fish for treatment.

I would do a water change and add the med to the tank.

I am kicking myself for not insisting on the medication a couple of weeks back when I had suspicions that something was not right
I will get some tomorrow and treat the tank and see what happens

Thankyou so much for your time

 

[WILDER]

I would still prepare for the worst.
Good luck, keeping fingers crossed.

 

[Ariana2]

Went out to get some fish treatment
Described my sorry tale to hopefully someone in the know who said it appreas there could be several things going on and adviced the use of Melafix antibacterial fish remedy
Did a 25% water change and removed the carbon filter and started dosing today.

The guppy has a slightly shredded fin but is still lively and feeding
All the other fish still look fine but the Angel is listless, not interested in food and has a very damaged fin and I fear the worst for this fish

Reading up it seems the melafix may help promote healing in the fish.....but will it solve anything bad lurking in the water which may get to other fish?

thanks

 

[WILDER]

They know nothing melafix is no good its an external med.
You need a internal med.
Melafix is only good on cuts and wounds.


Taken from this link.http/www.petsforum.com/cis-fishnet/afm/G29060.htm
The third type of infection produced by Aeromonas is by no means the least. This form is often the most virulent (potent) and can be rapidly fatal. This insidious form does not produce any noticeable external ulcers. The most notable feature is a behavioral change in which the infected fish generally become listless and lethargic. Some fish may lose color or appear darker. The fish do not feed, frequently seem off balance and may sink to the bottom laying on their sides. The course of the disease is rapid, and by the time the behavioral changes are noticed, the entire population of a tank may succumb, sometimes in a day or so. This is an internal infection, with the bacteria being found in the kidneys and blood of these fish. The bacteria produce potent toxins that account for the severity of the disease.

 

[WILDER]

I wouldn't listen to the lfs as there not giving you very good advice, melafix is expensive and useless to be honest, it an antiseptic med for cuts and wounds,



Aquarium Treatment - No 9 Anti Internal Bacteria interpet 100ml. Advanced formula aquarium treatment complete with handy measuring cap and pipette. Also comprehensive, easy to follow guide to fish health. Cures bacterial gillrot, dropsy and ulcers.
Evidence of internal bacterial infection is red streaks to the fins and red patches or blotches on the body of the fish. Can be very hard to treat and this is one of the few chemicals on the market which attempts a cure.

Worth a try to save your prize specimen or that family friend. 100ml treats 500 litres (110 gallons.)

 

[Ariana2]

I wouldn't listen to the lfs as there not giving you very good advice, melafix is expensive and useless to be honest, it an antiseptic med for cuts and wounds,
<a href="http/www.lifeforceonline.co.uk/fish_dise...product590.html" target="_blank">http/www.lifeforceonline.co.uk/fish_dise...product590.html</a>

right...... the angel fish does have some external wounding to its fin.....if I get an internal medication, can I use the two together?

cheers

 

[WILDER]

Yes you can use melafix with internal bacteria med.
To be honest can't believe the lfs, melafix is more expenisve wondering if they make more money on it,