Help before it's too late!!

[bilbailey]

Hi

I'm new to all this and therefore, pulling my hair our.

I set up a 19 litre coldwater tank 3 weeks ago. I thought I'd start small and work my way up.

Week 1
I set the tank up, filled it with water and put required amount of conditioner in, turned the filter on and left it to run.

Week 2
Took a sample of water to shop and got it tested, they said it was ok, but they didn't have the type of fish I wanted. So, I went to another shop and bought 2 pearlscales and 1 blackmoor.

They seemed ok for 2 days, but then the water started to get cloudy, so I did a partial water change and put conditioner in.

On day 3, one of the pearlscales bloated and hid in the barrel and wouldn't eat, day 4 it emerged with red lips, so I got some medication and put the required amount in.

Put the same amount of medication in day 5 and day 6.

Day 7 the other pearlscale started pecking at it, so I put the ill pearlscale in a separate tank, as it was obvious it was not going to make it (let it die in peace).

Week 3
Day 8 I did a partial water change, put the required amount of conditioner in, still quite cloudy, so also put some sludge buster in. Blackmoor started to do some odd things, looked like it was struggling to swim and kept kind of being sucked towards the filter, also lost a bit of it's blackness, so I thought if it's no better in the morning I would put it in with the sick pearlscale.

Day 9 woke up, both pearlscale and blackmoor are dead, scooped the blackmoor out, did a partial water change and vacuumed the gravel.

Day 10 all seems ok.

Day 11 pearlscale that is left has stopped eating and seemed to be gulping quite heavily, moved the underwater filter up a bit to allow some air bubbles to get into the water, by the end of the day, tank was less cloudy and the pearlscale seemed to be less gulpy.

Day 12 still not eating.

Day 13 pearlscale is eating again, but has started flicking and when it's not swimming it's nose is down and it's tail up.

Day 14 pearlscale has started to loose a bit of the orange colour on the underside, is sitting in one place near the bottom of the tank unless you turn the filter off, nose down and tail up more so, when not swimming.

I don't know what to do, I've lost 2 and don't want to loose this one, any idea what the problem is and how do I fix it. I've seen the pearlscale pooing, so I don't think it's constipation.

Are underwater filters alone any good, do fish need bubbles, man in the shop said that the bubbles are purely for display, I'm not so sure.

When I do my water changes, I'm getting the temperature the same, but I'm not sure if I should put the conditioner in before or after I've added the water to the tank, also, do I put conditioner in for the amount in the whole tank, or just the amount of water I've changed.

Any help would be appreciated, I don't think this little fellow will survive much longer.

Thanks bilbailey

 

[WILDER]

You need a least a 30gal tank for them two fish, big waste producers, and need a excellent filter, going pale is a sign of stress, they have ammonia poisoning and alot of other things going on to poor water quality,are going to die if you can get them back to the lfs quick.

 

[WILDER]

http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=43980

 

[bilbailey]

Hi thanks for the reply, I've only got one fish left who is about 2" long, the filter is for a 35 litre tank and the tank is 19 litres 4 gallons uk. The lfs wont have it back, as it is out of the 3 day guarantee they give.

Is there anything that can be done?

Cheers bilbailey

 

[julibob]

Unfortunately you seem to have been given very poor advice. Your tank would not have begun to cycle when you added the 3 fish, and the waste they produced would have overloaded the filter, hence probable high ammonia. I wish that LFS's would ask what setup the fish were for and how long they have been running before selling fish . I am no expert on these matters, and have many issues of my own, but my recommendation would be a 30% water change (recondition the water) and added oxygen. I really hope that your fish is ok.

Rest assured that you will get as much advice as you need for members of this forum.

Julia

 

[bilbailey]

Hi Julia

Thanks for the reply.

When I do my water changes, I'm getting the temperature the same, but I'm not sure if I should put the conditioner in before or after I've added the water to the tank, also, do I put conditioner in for the amount in the whole tank, or just the amount of water I've changed.

Cheers bilbailey

 

[Funny Pie]

Hi Julia

Thanks for the reply.

When I do my water changes, I'm getting the temperature the same, but I'm not sure if I should put the conditioner in before or after I've added the water to the tank, also, do I put conditioner in for the amount in the whole tank, or just the amount of water I've changed.

Cheers bilbailey

[snapback]914135[/snapback]​

You take the water out for the water change, dump the water that you siphoned out. Then, you put how ever much water you took out and put it in a seperate bucket and mix the solution into the water then pour it back in the tank. Example:
I have 4 5 gallon bottles. In a normal 20% water change I take 1 1/2 bottles of water out of the tank (7.5 gallons). I then empty those, clean it out then I fill up 1 and 1/2 bottles of tap water. For one five gallon bottle I put 1/2 a teaspoon of water conditioner in. The water conditioner says to put 1 teaspoon for every 10 gallons. 5 gallons is half of 10, thus 1/2 teaspoon. Then 1/4 teaspoon for the 1/2 filled water bottle. Let it sit for about 2 seconds and pour it back in. Now for your case a water change would be about 1 uk gallon or so. So you siphon out that then you get new water and put the dechlorinator of how ever much your putting back in and pour it back in... wow im really in the mood for typing tonight lol

 

[bilbailey]

Thanks Funnypie

It's all so confusing, what happened to the old skool goldfish, that my mum used to buy, fill up a tank, stick the fish in and they were fine for the next 5 years. They just don't make fish like they used to, we've softened them up too much, lol.

My pearlscale is still with us, however is spending most of it's time now, nose down, tail up.

Is there anything I can do, or shall I just let it die, clean out the tank and start again?

 

[WILDER]

Only a water change as it dying, good luck.

 

[Gourami Girl]

oh dear, i hope the pearlscale is still around.

unfortunately it's a common misconception that the smaller the tank, the easier it is to look after, in fact it's the opposite. Because it's such a small volume of water there is less water to dilute any problems, pollution etc take over much quicker than in a large tank. This is especially true with coldwater fish as they produce much more waste.

as has been mentioned, it is most likely you had a huge ammonia spike due to adding the fish, really adding one fish and leaving it at least a week before adding another and so on, would have been much better.

now all you can do is keep doing water changes.

What are the dimensions of the tank?

have you had the water tested recently?

don't whatever you do, ever switch the filter and pump off, this will kill off all the friendly bacteria you are trying to build up, to deal with the fish waste.

bubbles aren't crucial, what you do need is movement on the water surface, the more ripples the better, but ensure the fish aren't being blown around, as they are ornamentals who aren't great at swimming!

keep conditioning the water you are adding (not the amount for the whole tank), i would do 50% changes every day until the ammonia is 0, as i'm guessing it's still high at the moment.

feed only every 2 days until the filter has matured and then only tiny amounts, i would say to feed the Tetra fresh foods, as the fancy coldwaters are prone to swimbladder problems, associated with dry foods.

make sure you are vacuuming the gravel when you are doing your water changes, as there may be muck trapped there that needs removing.

adding a teaspoon of salt per gallon will help buck him up, but other than that keep up with the water changes.

make sure you remove any carbon and zeolite in your filter.

if the flow goes down and you do need to clean it, clean the sponge in old tank water you've removed as the chlorine in the tap water will kill the bacteria.

good luck and let me know what happens.

 

[funkybodal]

Are underwater filters alone any good, do fish need bubbles, man in the shop said that the bubbles are purely for display, I'm not so sure.

[snapback]914097[/snapback]​

The guy in the shop is a muppet...Your undergravel needs 'bubbles' to function as a filter - the air bubbles rise up the airlift tube which creates a current for water to draw through your gravel which acts as the filter bed.

The bubbles also create good surface movement which will boost the oxygen in the water.

Undergravel filters work pretty well (although are abit dodgy in the heavily stocked tank) - LIGHTLY clean the gravel with a gravel cleaner every now and then to keep the filter running smoothly.

Sorry to hear about your fish and good luck in the future.

 

[Inchworm]

Hi bilbailey

It looks to me like you have gotten some good advice here and some bad advice from your lfs. But, if you have not yet learned the very basics of fishkeeping you might be a little confused right now, so let's start at the beginning.

It's all so confusing, what happened to the old skool goldfish, that my mum used to buy, fill up a tank, stick the fish in and they were fine for the next 5 years. They just don't make fish like they used to, we've softened them up too much, lol.

Goldfish are still the same, but there are fancy ones too and your pearlscale is one of them. This is not a natural fish but one that has resulted from selected breeding and inbreeding to develop certain characteristics. Your mom's goldfish were probably comets, which are tough fish that can survive the winters outdoors in many places. Even so, as you will learn, that fish never grew to its full size or enjoyed its life the way it might have in a larger tank or pond.

What did happen in your mom's tank, and it happened over time, is that the tank went through a process called cycling. This means that certain bacteria developed that ate the toxic ammonia from the fish wastes and converted it to nitrItes which are also harmful. Then other bacteria developed to consume the nitrItes and turn them into the less harmful nitrAtes.

This is a process that takes a while to happen, but once you have what we call "beneficial bacteria" living in the tank it is said to be "cycled" and able to maintain a certain number of fish, depending on its size. The term "balanced" means the right amount of fish in the tank.

With this in mind, I would suggest you purchase some test kits for ammonia, nitrIte and nitrAte, do a bit more research on the forum, and start monitoring your water. Your lfs will also try to sell you a test kit for pH, but you don't have to worry about that right now and probably not in the future either.

Good luck with your new hobby. Fishkeeping is both an art and a science and once you master the basics it will be very rewarding.