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hello peeps first up great forum and some interesting and pretty easy to understand topics, manage to find this place via an mr2 car forum of all places lol, just posting up to say hi and maybe get some extra hints and tips...

basically i had one of THESE for christmas (and yes i know a fish is for life not just for christmas :p) now the tanks a 21ltr coldwater tank with the capacity of 4 goldfish so it says anyway, well i want to change the tank to a tropical one, will it be a simple case of adding a heater? (if so what kind of heater am i gonna need? or they just a basic set heater? )

also i'd like to keep more than 4 fish (possible?) but would prefer to go for something smaller not really looked into what fish i want to keep yet as going from your sticky topics i got plenty of time to decide when im cyceling the tank,

also what else am i going to need? and what from the following is only fit for the bin?...
- 2 Artificial Plants
- 1.5Kg Decorative Gravel
- 12g Goldfish Flake Food
- Elite Stingray 5 Underwater Filter
- 30ml Aqua Plus Water Conditioner
- 30ml Cycle Biological Supplement
going from sticky topcs im going to need some kind of testing kit to start

im hoping to use this tank to see if i can successfully keep tropical fish, and then if all goes well maybe look at getting a bigger tank later on

anyway thanks in advance
James :good:
 
alos the tank is one of these toughend plastic tanks, now i know im new to this and im pretty sure the fish dont go swimming around in boiling hot water but my mothers gone out to get me a heater (not told her what exactly i wanted but shes gone out anyway... tut) and going from the phone call i just had someones told her this cant be done in the tank ive got... is this correct?
 
come on guys some one must have something to say even if its just a simple hello :p or to ruin my lil dream....

how about some incentive pics from a recent fish tank i took... the red sea :D

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Haha those pics are great , so are you a scuba diver like myself then? - i would love to go to the red sea! :drool: Oh and Welcome to the forum , if youve got any questions you are unsure on just ask !! well be happy to help!

Welcome

adam
 
Yeah great pics.
What camera did you use.
I was in Australia - Lady Elliot Island. (Great Barrier Reef) last April but alas no camera.
I'm going for a month again in April 2008 (fell in love with the place)
Any tips on the photography side of things. I know that light is filtered out the deeper you go and everything seems drab that is of course you shine light on the corals.
Any guidance would be greatly appreciated
Regards
BigC
http://www.ladyelliot.com.au/
 
for you heater question I AM NOT SURE WHAT YOU CAN TRY IS HYDOR IT HINK THAT IS WHAT IT ISCALLED MINI HEATER WHICH i DONT BELEIVE WILL MELT PLASTIC EVEN WITH A GLASS HEATER i really doubt they will get hot enough. If you think about it they have to be sae for fish so I DOUBT IT WILL GET HOT ENOUGH TO MELT PLASTIC.
PS: SORRy for caps I am not typing on my comp.
 
That tank can in no way shape or form hold 4 goldfish. It hardly has the capacity for even a single gold fish. Goldies get massive and need lots of room to swim around. They are also very messy fish, producing tons of waste. I would strongly advise against getting a goldfish.

However, that should not deter you from fishkeeping! If you are very new to the hobby I suggest that you look around and do research before you get any fish. Browse around the forums and other places online to see what fish you like. And if you have any questions feel free to ask around ( look however, to see if some-one has already asked your question :D ). It's very wise to do all the research you need BEFORE you buy your fish.

I would suggest starting with some hardy fish, guppies are fairly easy to take care of. They are also extremely easy to breed, if you want to get into that sort of thing.... Bettas ( also known as Siamese Fighting Fish ) are very easy to care for. The tank you have would be perfectly suited for a betta, but do keep in mind... only one betta per tank please, males will fight to the death if kept together. Visit the Betta Sub-forum for more info. However it's up to you though, just make sure that any fish you get will be properly housed and taken care off :D.


Cheers mate, and welcome to the forums! Feel free to PM if you need help with anything.
 
Hi, Although the tank is fairly small when most people consider tropical fish tanks , it is probably far better for a few small tropical fish than goldfish (and it definately cannot hold 4 , messy, fast growing, high oxygen consuming goldfish.

The size of heater you will need is a 25w one, not all makes go down to this wattage but if you look around the aquatic shops you will find a small one that will fit in the tank fine. You could probably go for 6-8guppies /small tetras without overstocking the tank. don't forget to cycle the tank first though!

If you want to keep it as coldwater, then consider paradise fish as these are really good looking fish and much more suitable for the tank than any kind of goldfish.
 
thats the replies i was looking for :good:

as for being a scuba diver... im afraid not, it was a £3 snorkal mask i hired from the dive shop with a couple of mates, walked down a small concrete ponton and jumped in, i got a friend whos going to egypt in the new year scuba diving however so i will let you know how he gets on, cracking place and really cheap to get out there (from the uk) reccomentd it to anyone!

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jumped in just to the right and was suprised at just how many fish and the variety there was, spent ages floating around watching them do there thing, surfaced to find the rest of the group had swam ashore ages ago lol

and as for the camera.... well that was a cheap underwater disposable one which i paid about £5 for worked a treat, and a simple trip to the local supermarket (tesco) when i got home and they put them on a cd as well... job done! going to cancun mexico :hyper: in a week and already got me some cheap underwater cameras ready, i'll keep you guys updated when i return, sure will manage to find me some fish.


If you want to keep it as coldwater, then consider paradise fish as these are really good looking fish and much more suitable for the tank than any kind of goldfish

agreed nice looking fish but i want to go tropical, i want to use this tank to see if i got what it takes to look after fish, keep up with weekly water changes etc. before getting something a little bigger

im guessing my mother called into the local pet supermarket and asked some random at the till, im confident that it will not melt from a heater but was hoping someone else would back my theory, which you have :D maybe i could put something between the heater and the plastic when i get one,

im going to use the time the tank is cyceling to decide what fish to go for, something small and hardy liking the look of some of the fish suggested so far, aslong as there nice too look at few fancy colours im easily pleased, i'll take a look in the Betta Sub-forum as well

what about the stuff that came with the tank? im guessing the filter will be fine as they all do the same thing no? as will the crappy plants and gravel will have to look into a bit further what to add to the tank give my fish a nicer home all be it a small one :blush:

Biological Supplement - reading through past topics im assuming this is some kind of liquid to bump start the lil bugs in my tank that help break down the fish crap :p and goign form the posts this is a load of crap and its best just to leave nature take its course, and finally i know im going to need some kind of testing kit.
im in no rush as i dont want to start anything till i get back from my hols and just doing my research at the mo

anyway thanks again and sorry for the long post

James
 
Hi James,

Welcome to the forum! I think a lot of people are not online much at the moment because of the holidays as normally you would have had a few more responses :)

Its great to see that you are taking a real interesting in getting things right and you will get a lot of respect from people here for having that kind of attitude.

Going from what you have:
- 4.5g(uk) tank
This is a relatively small tank which does really limit your stocking options. It will also require a lot more work to keep running well and has a higher chance of something going wrong. For example if there was an ammonia spike in this tank it could wipe out all of the fish while in a larger tank with more water it would have been diluted and not caused such a problem (if any).

That being said however it is possible to keep fish healthy and happy in a small tank. You just need to do your research first (as you are doing :) ), pikc the right fish and keep up with the water changes and maintaince. There is somethign very rewarding about being able to sit back and watch your fish :)

I will go on to the possible stocking options later.

- 2 Artificial Plants
- 1.5Kg Decorative Gravel

Your call on these ones. If you like them then keep them. Depending on what fish you have you may, or may not, want to keep the plants. If you go for something like a betta you probably wont want any fake plants in there that have sharp edges so they dont catch their fins on anything. Personally I would recommend getting some nice silk type fake plants which look a lot more realistic.

A lot of fish do like to have areas to hide/explore.

- 12g Goldfish Flake Food
I honestly dont know what the difference is between tropical and cold water fish food. I would just bin this though and get some tropical stuff.

- Elite Stingray 5 Underwater Filter
Yep this is fine for tropical.

- 30ml Aqua Plus Water Conditioner
You will need dechlorinator eventually. You add this to the tap water when you do water changes to remove the chlorine and other stuff which could damage the biological filtration.

- 30ml Cycle Biological Supplement
As you said most people think these kind of things are complete rubbish. I would tend to agree. Not sure if this stuff is meant for cold water and tropical temps if it is supposed to be used for both then you might as well use it.

Things you need:
Heater: Yeah try and get a 25w heater. I doubt very much it would melt the plastic. They get hot but the water around them takes away most of the heat so not really an issue. If it helps to put your mind at rest I have had 150w and 200w heaters in buckets of water before and they got nowhere near hot enough to do any damage to the plastic.

Test kits: You need test kits for Ammonia, Nitrite and optionally also nitrate (notie the difference between nitrIte and nitrAte). It sounds like you have already read about this but the fish waste is basically Ammonia which is very harmful to fish, bacteria will grow on your filter which eat the ammonia and produce Nitrite which is also very harmful to fish. You will then get more bacteria growing in your filter which eat the Nitrite and produce nitrate. Nitrate is not harmful to (most) fish unless it is in very, very high quantities.

So you need to be able to test the ammonia and nitrite levels in your tank. Nitrate is useful to know but to be honest there is not a lot you can do about it for a 4g tank so just make sure you do weekly water changes to keep the levels low. Same goes for PH. It is good to know the PH of you water but as this is your first tank you really dont want to get into messing about altering the PH. If you get your water from a tap (and not from a well or other source) chances are it will be ok for the types of fish you are going to be able to keep.

Dechlorinator: As above. Add this when you do water changes.

Ammonia source: You wil need a source of ammonia to start the cycling process in your tank. i have used both fish food, frozen prawns and pure ammonia in the past. All of them work but the pure ammonia smells less and is the best option imo. Expect it to take at least 2-3 weeks to cycle. These 2-3 weeks are what annoy most new fish keeper as you obviously want to get some fish in your tank. Just think though that you wouldnt want to keep a dog in a box full of ammonia so you shouldnt want to do the same to fish which will also be your pets 9doesnt sound liek you are the type of person to do this though).

Decorations: Personally I prefer plants/wood/rocks to castles and bubbling treasure chests in my tanks but it really is your choice. Just make sure you have areas for the fish to swim in the open and areas where they can hide away. I would recommend wood with javafern attached to it. Looks nice and the plants also help take ammonia, nitrite and nitrate out of the water. Floating plants like salvina are also very good for this (and if you get a betta they love these for building bubble nests in). Just make sure you regularly remove a lot of it as it tends to grow quick and you dont want it covering the whole surface of the water (especially for bettas).

Fish:
4.5g is not a very big tank so you are limited. This doesnt mean that you cant get some really nice fish though. I would avoid guppies and other live bearers (molly's, platy's, etc) unless you only get all male or all female. its nice to breed fish but you need to find somewhere for the fry to live and a 4.5g tank will get over crowded quick.

Betta:
Personally I would agree with Snooks and go for a betta. Just get one male and it would have a lot more personality then any small fish you can keep in there. You could probably get a betta and around 3 pygmy cory's. If you go for a betta look for a local breeder as most lfs dont tend to have a very good selection and you can get some really stunning looking betta's ( I personally love the crowntail bettas).

Tetras:
You could go for 6-8 ember tetra's. These are some of the smallest tetras and would do well in this tank. Again maybe 3 pygmy corys as well for the bottom.
Glowlight and flame tetras could be another possibility as they are not as active as some of the other tetras so dont need quite as much swim room. You could also add some cherry shrimp in here as well (and maybe also to a betta tank though the betta "might" eat them).

There are other fish choices but these would be my "personal" recommendations as hardy, but nice, fish for a smalelr tank. You dont want anything that needs a lot of swim room, needs very large groups or gets to big.
 
what a cracking reply thanks for your time there, im going to take a trip to my lfs in the new year for the heaters and test kits, but going from a quick search on good old ebay i wont be to worried if i cant find what im looking for there,

had a quick look in the beta forums and i like what i see, i'd rather have more than one fish if possible so maybe the pygmy cory's like you said would be a good idea

im glad to hear ive got my work cut out with a small tank :unsure: but the end result will be worth it hopefully, still trying to get my head around the science side of this nitrite and nitrate etc. will get there in the end, like being in school again reading over and over the same thing.

and definatly a no for breeding once again thanks for the reply and i'll keep you all updated as i go aloung

James :good:
 

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