Hello. New 150 Gallon With Some Adopted Fish.

Adoptedfish13

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Hi all. 
 
I inherited a 29 gallon with angelfish that I already was living with for a few years. When my best friend passed away my husband and I kept the 2 angels and added some live plants and a couple corys. We had some ph issues a while back and went back to plastic plants.
 
Now that we have moved, the water seems better here and my husband got a 150 gallon. Because of a language barrier, he wasn't aware of the tank inhabitants that were coming with it until he went to pick it up. :-O
 
Anyway, there were 15 fancy goldfish ( Varying from ping pong size up to tennis ball size!), 2 pacu, 2 tinfoil barbs, a huge sailfin molly male, 2 small pleco, and 6 angels in there!
 
I luckily found a place at a local fish shop for the goldfish even if they were very beautiful. I think it was too many goldfish for that tank although all the fish seem healthy enough. We just weren't up for the challenge of keeping goldfish with tropicals.
 
I am enjoying the barbs especially for some reason. I have never kept those types of fish before. I have only kept an oscar here and there when I was young and never got too serious about keeping community tanks. 
 
We would like to plant this tank and see how it goes but I am not really used to having a large tank. I have been told that larger is easier, but don't believe it until I see it. lol
 
I will be reading quite a bit of info in this forum to try to learn what I can about my unexpected new pets and trying to keep them healthy.
 
We have a large Common Plec who was awful for destroying our plants, and we've been told that Bogwood plants are really quite hardy. We've got two in out 150l at the moment and they've lasted great for ages! 
 
Thanks for the info and advice on plants. I did read that the barbs would eat them. I guess I will try different plants to see if any will be left alone, if not, then too bad. When we fed last night, those silver sided fish were so entertaining! The Silver Dollars (that I thought were pacu when I first saw them) made some tight circles that were so fast that they pulled some air down in a mini water tornado! I was impressed. :) When I was young, I would pass right by those fish and go straight to the cichlids and bottom feeders. Never even gave those schooling fish a second glance, but I also didn't have a large enough tank, either. :/
 
Silver dollars :) probably one of the few fish that are harder on plants than tinfoils. I wish you luck with your planting. Although I don't like them maybe artificial plants is the way to go.
 
With the fish mentioned (and there are some important issues with this combination/numbers that I will leave alone because this is a "done deal") it might be preferable to be more authentic in the aquascape.  Chunks of bogwood and branches (with a sand/fine gravel substrate, whatever is there) and no lower plants.  Floating plants would be useful, both to shade the light (which all these fish would appreciate) and to provide biological benefits that come with plants.  Being floating, they will be fast growing, and even if they are munched on, some will likely survive.  Hardy lower plants might be suitable, like Java Fern attached to some of the wood chunks, as no fish will eat this plant, and it is low light and relatively easy to maintain.
 
Byron.
 
Thanks Byron. It just so happens that the former keeper had sand and my 29 gallon had sand as well. His sand was white and ours black so we just put ours over the top of it on the right side of the tank ( more bio anyway, and I am not a fan of bright dayglow gravel or anything like that lol ). It is interesting how certain fish seem to like the light and some the dark. We will need to get the right lights before getting the plants but it is still a plan to plant it, even with these fish. lol I have looked up some plants that are left alone by some people's dollars, like the java fern, that I like anyway. Someone mentioned Hornwort too. I want to get the fast growing java moss as well. We have 3 pieces of wood in the tank and a larger one soaking now. We have false plants in there that are tall enough to come up and trail on the top that the fish like to be under.
 
I have decided to keep only half the tank lit until I get the proper bulbs. This guy's lighting looks harsh and there are no living plants yet anyhow. Silver dollars seem to love the dark substrate side and the dark in general. The barbs stay over the side with light substrate and keep rubbing against eachother, especially after feeding and when the lights go out. 
 
As I mentioned in the first post. All the goldfish were rehomed. I also rehomed 3 of the angels (angels are no angels lol) I guess there should have been more barbs or SDs but it is what it is for now. The SDs are so shy lately and have taken to the dark corner after we put some long false plants that trail up and over. I see that they like to hide and it is why I cut the light to that side of the tank. Poor things! 
 
Well, no fish have died and none look sick. I have been afraid of issues because the tank was moved but it seems to be much better than trying to put these fish in a fresh new tank. I may not have any fish left if we cleaned up more ( husband gently cleaned the canister filter as it was just about clogged and the guy had carbon in there that was still in the plastic! Perhaps he forgot to open the package? Weird! ) . Still waiting for things to get perfect with the cycle and watching the fish very closely. 
 
Adoptedfish13 said:
 
 
I have decided to keep only half the tank lit until I get the proper bulbs. This guy's lighting looks harsh and there are no living plants yet anyhow. Silver dollars seem to love the dark substrate side and the dark in general. The barbs stay over the side with light substrate and keep rubbing against eachother, especially after feeding and when the lights go out. 
 
My tank is half covered with water lettuce. Some fish, particularly the angels are always in the shady half except for feeding. The tetras tend to hang about in the light part. I like the subdued light the floating plants give.
 
http://s435.photobucket.com/user/Javalad/media/tank.jpg.html?filters[user]=84009104&filters[recent]=1&sort=1&o=0
 
That's a lovely aquarium Neil, beautiful indeed.
 
As the subject of light and fish has been raised, I'll just comment that this is a very important factor that is often overlooked by aquarists.  I have gone into detail about the physiological effect light has on fish in other threads and won't repeat here unless asked, but in general terms most of the fish we maintain occur in quite dimly-lit waters.  And when provided with the option, show clear preferences for areas of less light.  This is of more importance for some species than it is for others, but it is always instructive to observe how fish respond when they have options.  This tells us a lot about providing the best home for them.
 
Floating plants should really be considered mandatory in all aquaria holding forest fish, or with no plants then subdued lighting.  The fish will be less stressed and that means healthier.
 
Byron.
 
 
 
That's a lovely aquarium Neil, beautiful indeed.
I agree. It is lovely.
 
 
Perhaps it is no coincidence that the Metynnis started showing spawning behavior very shortly after we placed fake plants for cover and cut the light to that side of the tank. That side sometimes gets turned on when my husband gets home, but at least they get some respite. We want to set it up so there are a few lighting options, one is quite subdued by only using a ballast that is made for a 29 gallon in the center. It leaves the sides pretty dark and also has an attractive vignette-like appearance.
 
I plan on lighting it up brightly at the times that I will be photographing the fish, but other than that, I prefer it not to be very bright. It is in the same room as the TV that I seldom watch, but when my husband persuades me to come out there for a movie, I demand all lights off because I am easily distracted.
 
Light pollution drives me a little nuts and I can imagine it is worse on any creatures that are naturally inclined to have some shade and hiding places. Use of bright light can be a form of torture (like what is done to human prisoners). I'm sure that improper use of lighting can have detrimental effects on all captive creatures that are at our mercy. 
 
I'm going to add some of the detail on this subject, since you have briefly touched on several aspects in your last post.  And to do so, I will just copy an article I wrote a few years back for another site.  From this you will undoubtedly see some issues related to some of your habits, so again, feel free to question anything.
 
Fish are affected by light in many ways.  There are several well-documented studies on spawning in some species being triggered by changes in the day/night cycle, and the hatching of eggs and the growth rate of fry can be impacted significantly depending upon the presence and intensity of light.  The health of fish is closely connected to the intensity of the overhead light, various types of light, and sudden changes from dark to light or light to dark.  To understand this, we must know something about the fish’s physiology.  The primary receptor of light is the eye, but other body cells are also sensitive to light.
 
Fish eyes are not much different from those of other vertebrates including humans.  Our eyes share a cornea, an iris, a lens, a pupil, and a retina.  The latter contains rods which allow us to see in dim light and cones which perceive colours; while mammals (like us) have two types of cones, fish have three—one for each of the colours red, green and blue.  These connect to nerve cells which transmit images to the brain, and the optic lobe is the largest part of the fish’s brain. 
 
These cells are very delicate; humans have pupils that expand or contract to alter the amount of light entering the eye and eyelids, both of which help to prevent damage occurring due to bright light.  Fish (with very few exceptions such as some shark species) do not have eyelids, and in most species their pupils are fixed and cannot alter.  In bright light, the rods retract into the retina and the cones approach the surface; in dim light the opposite occurs.  But unlike our pupils that change very quickly, this process in fish takes time.  Scientific studies on salmon have shown that it takes half an hour for the eye to adjust to bright light, and an hour to adjust to dim light.  This is why the aquarist should wait at least 30 minutes after the tank lights come on before feeding or performing a water change or other tank maintenance;  this allows the fish to adjust to the light difference.
 
Turning the Tank Light On/Off
 
When the tank light suddenly turns on in a dark room, fish will dive to the substrate, dash about frantically often hitting the glass sides of the aquarium, or even jump out of the water.  The same reactions occur when the tank lights are suddenly turned out.  Aside from any possible physical injury the fish may sustain, these sudden changes in the light cause significant stress to the fish.  Bright camera flashes can also be stressful in the same way.  So also would any unnatural effect such as strobe lighting. 
 
Thom Demas, curator of fishes at the Tennessee Aquarium, defines stress as anything that threatens to disrupt an organism’s normal physical, mental and/or emotional state.  The organism must then expend energy dealing with the stressor, which leaves it with less energy to deal with other things, such as pathogens.  “If the fish are busy running from or hiding from that weird phenomenon of ‘instant lights on or off,’ they may be wasting energy to this stressor and eventually get sick from something that is most likely ubiquitous and that they would have tolerated had the stressing event not been there,” says Demas.  There is now ample scientific evidence that in fish as in humans, stress at any level has a very negative impact on the immune system because it disrupts the physiological equilibrium of the fish.
 
The solution with tank lights is obvious: the room should always be reasonably well lit when the tank light comes on and when it goes off.  As Marc Kind, curator of fishes and invertebrates at the Adventure Aquarium in Camden, New Jersey, says, “this is just good, sound husbandry.”  Given the evidence mentioned previously of the time it takes for fish to adjust, the room should be lit for at least an hour  before and after the tank light is turned on or off respectively.  From my own experience this all but eliminates any frantic reactions from the fish.  They will uniformly and quickly swim toward the room light source (be it light coming in the window or from a lamp) when the tank light goes off, but without frantic crashes and jumping into the tank cover glass which will otherwise occur.
 
The Day/Night Cycle
 
Most animals have an internal body clock, called a circadian rhythm, which is modified by the light/dark cycle every 24 hours.  This is the explanation for jet-lag in humans when time zones are crossed—our circadian rhythm is unbalanced and has to reset itself, which it does according to periods of light and dark.  Our eyes play a primary role in this, but many of our body cells have some reaction to light levels.  In fish this light sensitivity in their cells is very high. 
 
Previously I mentioned that the rods and cones in the eye shift according to the changes in light.  This process is also anticipated according to the time of day; the fish “expects” dawn and dusk, and the eyes will automatically begin to adjust accordingly.  This is due to the circadian rhythm.
 
This is one reason why during each 24 hours a regular period of light/dark—ensuring there are several hours of complete darkness—is essential for the fish.  In the tropics, day and night is equal for all 365 days a year, with approximately ten to twelve hours each of daylight and complete darkness, separated by fairly brief periods of dawn or dusk.  The period of daylight produced by direct tank lighting can be shorter; and the period of total darkness can be somewhat shorter or longer—but there must be several hours of complete darkness in the aquarium.  The dusk and dawn periods will appear to be stretched out, but that causes no problems for the fish.  It is the bright overhead light that is the concern, along with having a suitable period of total darkness.  And the "day" period when the tank lights are on should be one continuous period, not sporadic, and it should be the same every 24 hours or it will impact the circadian rhythm causing more stress.
 
The Brightness of the Tank Light
 
“Daylight” can be vastly different for different species of fish, depending upon their natural habitats.  Most aquarium fish are forest fish, living in rivers, streams and creeks, ponds and small lakes, and even ditches and swamps.  Some of these watercourses are permanently shaded by the forest canopy or overhanging marginal vegetation; some are filled with branches and sunken bogwood; some watercourses are white-water, full of suspended particulate matter that “soaks up” the light and keeps the water murky and dimly lit; watercourses in full sunlight usually have a thick mat of floating plants, and depending upon the position of the sun in the sky, much of its light may be reflected off the surface.  In most areas of the tropics, the rivers and streams rise and flood the surrounding forest for half the year, and it is during this period that the fish move into the even darker forest waters to spawn.  For fish living in all of these environments, bright light is something they seldom—and in some cases never—experience, or from which they prefer to retreat given the opportunity.  It is no surprise that the fish in the brightly-lit watercourses are almost always found at the edge under overhanging vegetation, branches and outcrops, or floating vegetation.
 
Programmed by nature over millions of years for such dimly-lit environments, the eyes of a fish are designed to capture the maximum amount of light.  This allows the fish to have some degree of vision even in dimly-lit water.  But when placed in brighter light, the fish will naturally look for cover in order to escape from that light.  Aquarists can readily see this in the aquarium; many forest fish when given the option clearly prefer shaded areas.  Baensch & Riehl (1987) called it a “light phobia” in characins.  And it impacts the fish’s colouration too.
 
Fish (and amphibians) possess specialized cells called melanophores that contain hundreds of melanin-filled pigment granules, termed melanosomes.  The sole function of these cells is pigment aggregation in the center of the cell or dispersion throughout the cytoplasm, thus altering the shade of colour.  The melanophore cells are themselves light sensitive and respond directly to light by melanosome translocations, which is why the fish’s colouration pales during total darkness.  Pencilfish in the genus Nannostomus have a diurnal patterning; at night the lateral lines break up into dashes, and the fish pales.  This has been noted to occur even in blind fish, which shows that it is not sight that tells the fish it is getting dark, but the increase in darkness probably coupled with the circadian rhythm that sets in motion the natural response of the fish to darkness.
 
But the fish can also adjust the melanosomes voluntarily in response to environmental stimuli, stress, and social interactions.  Fish in the store tank often appear pale, or after being netted and bagged will often be without any colour.  Fish kept in brightly-lit tanks will frequently exhibit much less intense colouration.  In all these cases, this “washed out” appearance is a natural response caused by high stress.  Floating plants are one of the best ways to provide shade, along with using the minimum intensity of light necessary; the reward to the aquarist will be brighter colouration and increased interaction between the fish—and that spells healthier fish.
 
References:
 
Baensch, Hans A. and Rudiger Riehl (1987), Aquarium Atlas, First English edition.
 
Evans, Mark E. (2007), “Fish Eyes,” Advanced Aquarist, Volume VI (January 2007) [online:
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2007/1/aafeature2
 
Huck, Arden (2002), “How Do Bony Fish Eyes Work?” at SimplyDiscus.com [online].
 
Muha, Laura (2007), “Aquarium Lighting” installment in “The Practical Fishkeeper” column, Tropical Fish Hobbyist, February 2007.
 
Iga, Tetsuro and Ikuo Takabatake (1983), “Melanophores of Zacco temmincki (teleostei) are light sensitive,” Journal of Experimental Zoology, Volume 227, Issue 1, pp. 9-14.
 
Thanks for that informative article. It is very interesting. 
 
I can see how many might never even consider the effect that bright light or even sudden lights on or off can have on our aquatic roomates. 
 
I have definitely seen what happens when lights suddenly come on or a camera flash spooks the fish (my flash is off when I photograph them as it looks bad anyway). One of our lights is on a timer. It would be really cool if we could time it to dimn slowly for an hour. It is already daylight with window light in the room when the light is timed to come on, and the lamp and TV is normally on when it goes out. Except for the rare times that I agree to watch a movie when I suddenly turn off all the lights. 
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  I guess it could be like when the power fails in a public place and some people (usually children) start and scream.
 
I will certainly consider having the home lighting on when I turn off the aquaruim lights. Seems easy enough to do.
 
It makes me wonder how those blue "night lights", or even the blacklighting affects the occupants of the tanks with the neon decor. I have doubts about the fish perceiving the blue light as moonlight, especially if they can see blue.
 
It makes me wonder how those blue "night lights", or even the blacklighting affects the occupants of the tanks with the neon decor. I have doubts about the fish perceiving the blue light as moonlight, especially if they can see blue.
 
 
Yes, blue light is still "light" to the fish.  If the blue is considerably less intense, it would be a more gradual lessening of light, provided it does go out leaving complete darkness in the tank and room.  Some people think they can leave the blue lights on all night, but as you can see that is very bad for the fish.  And in the tropics, fish never see moonlight, there is too dense a forest canopy for moonlight to get through in most places.
 
Too often we consider our wants and impose them on fish, whereas we should aim to provide what the fish need.  The green citation in my signature says it.
 
Byron.
 

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