Hello! And pleco help?

[Saydums]

Hi everyone,

I'm extremely new to this forum stuff but wanting to give it a go and hopefully get some insight in to how to get the most out of our aquarium.

Myself and my partner have had fish for a good roughly 4 years now, and have worked out way up to a big 300L (I think that's the size, it's a big tank around 5ft long) Set up. We were complete newbies when we started and done a lot of learning along the way. The one issue we are having is plecos - I can't seem to keep them and just looking for suggestions as to why. I've tried several over the years and I'd say the longest we've been able to keep them is about 6 months...I've kept a good eye on them and ensured they look healthy and to me they always do, I'm sure there has always been plenty of algae for them because once I loose the one we have everything gets covered quite quickly. Especially the wood and back glass. We usually also get the algae wafers too and feed them a couple times a week or so, and we also have a couple of bottom feeders so use catfish pellets too so assuming they can eat those? But we also have some very greedy fish...

I'm not a pro at this so I'll answer any questions to the best of my knowledge

If it helps, I've tried to list a bit of what we have
External hydra filter 500
We have the spray bar high to help with oxygen in the tank and move the water
Sand substrate
No live plants
Loads of driftwood of different sizes/age
I keep the tank to 26⁰C
Monthly water changes (as advised by the shop when we got the tank and filter)

The fish
We have 1 Oscar
2 silver dollars
3 tinfoil barbs
2 torpedo barbs
1 spotted loach
1 catfish (spotty)
2 gourami
2 sharks (silver and black)
2 angel fish
A couple more that I'm useless and can't work out what they are

Hopefully I've done this right - any help or advice would be gratefully received.

 

[Bruce Leyland-Jones]

I was going to ask about your water parameters and the species of plecs you keep losing...but then I noticed an Oscar in that mish-mash of assorted fish...and the sharks...and a single loach!

 

[Saydums]

I was going to ask about your water parameters and the species of plecs you keep losing...but then I noticed an Oscar in that mish-mash of assorted fish...and the sharks...and a single loach!

Well thanks for that
Not pretending to be a pro, already mentioned we have learnt as we go...we didn't have one loach. But this is the only one we have left. We haven't got any more as Oscar is large and I wouldn't want to risk putting young fish in for him to see them as food and in our area there aren't many 'fully grown' fish available. The loaches were tiny when we got them a couple years back of course. All our fish are quite large and we don't have any issues with them and they all get along beautifully (assuming you feel they shouldn't?). Always checked when we have purchased new fish in shops to make sure they wouldn't cause issues - I know Oscars can be a pain but we have a very large tank, loads of hiding places and we haven't had any issues with him.
I know we are basically still newbies at this but support other than online here is pretty non-existent. Hence me asking...

 

[NannaLou]

I think the more polite way to start finding out what the issues might be would be to ask what your water parameters are? Hard/soft (readings in numbers), acidity, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate levels?

I‘m not experienced enough to look at a list of fish and say they don’t match, but I do know that certain fish need different water types. Also, some fish only thrive when they are in groups of 5-6 as this makes them feel more secure, less stressed and therefore less prone to illnesses.

Normally it is suggested that water changes are done weekly, but I know that it’s said that the bigger the tank the less prone to water quality swings, so that might not be a relevant point right now.

Welcome to the forum and I’m certain you’ll get lots of good advice soon.

 

[Deleted member 149562]

A photo of the entire aquarium would be helpful...not just to try and fathom what is going wrong, but to also identify the fish you are unsure of

On the face of it, that is one heck of a mixture that tbh imho should not have been suggested or recommended for first time fishkeepers....you have a complex bunch and not all would be considered "beginner" species.

The monthly water change is not ideal, you have such a large variety of fish...and some are not exactly small...a weekly water change of tween 30% and 50% would keep things on a more even keel. We do need your exact water chemistry, especially in view of the monthly water changes....the no live plants is not an issue (even if the aquatic purists will say otherwise), however with artificial planting you definitely should be doing weekly water changes, weekly substrate vac's and at least monthly cleaning of the artificial plants done at the same time as your filter is serviced....all cleaning of filter media, filter canisters and artificial plants should be done in the used aquarium water removed when water changing.

 

[Bruce Leyland-Jones]

Bear in mind that the tank has already been established for 4 years and that no changes have apparently been made.
There are only two factors to really consider and they may, or may not be related.

• The repeated deaths of 'plecos'...and now loaches, it seems.
• As time passes, fish get older...and bigger and their behaviour can change.

 

[Colin_T]

Hi and welcome to the forum

What is the ammonia, nitrite & nitrate of the tank water (in numbers)?

What sort of plecos?
What symptoms do they show before or when they died?

How much water do you change during the monthly water change?
Do you dechlorinate the new water before adding it to the tank?

What sort of filter is on/ in the tank?
How often and how do you clean the filter?

Who suggested that group of fish for your tank?
If it was the pet shop, you might want to find another shop.

What are the tank dimensions (length x width x height)?

What is the GH (general hardness), KH (carbonate hardness) and pH of your water supply?
This information can usually be obtained from your water supply company's website or by telephoning them. If they can't help you, take a glass full of tap water to the local pet shop and get them to test it for you. Write the results down (in numbers) when they do the tests. And ask them what the results are in (eg: ppm, dGH, or something else).

Don't get anymore fish.

Post some pictures of the Oscar and other fishes you can't remember the names of.

 

[Deleted member 149562]

the no live plants is not an issue (even if the aquatic purists will say otherwise), however with artificial planting you definitely should be doing weekly water changes, weekly substrate vac's and at least monthly cleaning of the artificial plants done at the same time as your filter is serviced....all cleaning of filter media, filter canisters and artificial plants should be done in the used aquarium water removed when water changing.

 

[Bruce Leyland-Jones]

Hi everyone,

I'm extremely new to this forum stuff but wanting to give it a go and hopefully get some insight in to how to get the most out of our aquarium.

Myself and my partner have had fish for a good roughly 4 years now, and have worked out way up to a big 300L (I think that's the size, it's a big tank around 5ft long) Set up. We were complete newbies when we started and done a lot of learning along the way. The one issue we are having is plecos - I can't seem to keep them and just looking for suggestions as to why. I've tried several over the years and I'd say the longest we've been able to keep them is about 6 months...I've kept a good eye on them and ensured they look healthy and to me they always do, I'm sure there has always been plenty of algae for them because once I loose the one we have everything gets covered quite quickly. Especially the wood and back glass. We usually also get the algae wafers too and feed them a couple times a week or so, and we also have a couple of bottom feeders so use catfish pellets too so assuming they can eat those? But we also have some very greedy fish...

I'm not a pro at this so I'll answer any questions to the best of my knowledge

If it helps, I've tried to list a bit of what we have
External hydra filter 500
We have the spray bar high to help with oxygen in the tank and move the water
Sand substrate
No live plants
Loads of driftwood of different sizes/age
I keep the tank to 26⁰C
Monthly water changes (as advised by the shop when we got the tank and filter)

The fish
We have 1 Oscar
2 silver dollars
3 tinfoil barbs
2 torpedo barbs
1 spotted loach
1 catfish (spotty)
2 gourami
2 sharks (silver and black)
2 angel fish
A couple more that I'm useless and can't work out what they are

Hopefully I've done this right - any help or advice would be gratefully received.

Of all the available resources for info on fish on the internet, I find this one particularly useful. It's far from perfect, but it is a great place to start; Seriously Fish
One issue you perhaps haven't considered is that as fish mature, their behaviours can change, sometimes quite significantly. There's also that Great Unknown relating to whatever happens after lights out.
One common denominator, with the loss of loaches and plecos, was that they inhabit the lower reaches of the tank. There may be more. Sharks, in particular, can grow to be quite aggressive and usually you'd have just one in a tank. If you want your mystery fish identifying, just try and throw an image at us...someone will know.
(It might even be a Purple Loach and Pleco Eater and the conundrum will be solved).

 

[Ch4rlie]

There are a lot of variable at play here when it comes to keeping all kinds of fish in a single community tank, one of the biggest factors is making sure that one chooses suitable fish species that will generally get on with each other long term.

As Bruce has already mentioned, in his own way, that certain species of fish such as Oscars and sharks are more agressive especially when they grow older and will tend to be more agressive and territorial towards lower or bottom dwelling fish unfortunately, so this may help to answer, at least in part, to your query why you may be losing your plecos.

It is likely there will be more issues later on when most of these fish species grow out, I would suggest you to do a little more research about your fish species that you have in your tank and to look more closely at behaviour and compatibility.

Have included for you a seriously fish link for oscar and red tailed black shark so you can see what information is there to start your research off with -

Astronotus ocellatus – Oscar (Lobotes ocellatus, Astronotus orbiculatus) — Seriously Fish

www.seriouslyfish.com

Epalzeorhynchos bicolor – Red-Tailed Black Shark (Labeo bicolor) — Seriously Fish

www.seriouslyfish.com

Do note SF mentions for RTBS -

"Other bottom-dwelling fishes including cichlids and most catfish are best avoided as they may too be picked on. For the upper levels choose robust, active, schooling cyprinids. Ideally the Epalzeorhynchos should be the final addition to the tank in order to avoid it claiming ownership of the entire space."

 

[Saydums]

Thank you to everyone for your responses. Im trying trying answer as many questions I've seen above as I can, if I've missed anything do ask again if you feel it is needed.
I have a run out of testing strips and have some coming tomorrow so will send info once I have it with regard to the water. We are in a very hard water area and I add Tetra Aquasafe when doing water changes.
I do a monthly water change of around 30% - I thought doing a higher amount was more harmful for the fish? Sorry if that's very naive of me. I also clean the filter at the same time only with the used water from the tank. I will get the tank dimensions tomorrow but it is a very good size tank. The filter we have is a hydra pure 500.
We have used two different fish suppliers- one a chain here in the UK and another is an independently run one. Locally I've found the knowledge pretty dismal...we don't have another supplier anywhere close enough to use. I wasn't considering getting any other types of fish - I would like more of what we have for the reasons as mentioned about them being better in groups - I would like more angel fish and silver dollars as I am aware they are better in groups, I just can't get larger ones very often hence the lower numbers.
A couple of people have mentioned the sharks - I'm calling them sharks but it's not the red fin ones - they are the silver and black ones in the pictures attached. I've attached some pics as requested.

 

[Ch4rlie]

Think thats a silver shark, grows pretty big to be honest, 30 - 35 cm, definitely not a small fish.

Reckon a 7 foot tank would be suitable for some of those fully grown! (850 litres / 225 gals US)

 

[Saydums]

Think thats a silver shark, grows pretty big to be honest, 30 - 35 cm, definitely not a small fish.

Reckon a 7 foot tank would be suitable for some of those fully grown! (850 litres / 225 gals US)

So I'm certain I gave the wrong tank size and it is a 500L tank, but I'll confirm tomorrow once I have a tape measure to hand.
But we got those when we had out last tank (which was around 250L I think?) And was asked how big our tank was when we brought them and apparently that was fine...do you know how long they take to get full size? I have had them around 4 years now and they weren't small when we got them! I'd say they are around 15cm at the moment at a guess

 

[Ch4rlie]

These silver sharks, really more commonly known as Bala sharks, they do grow fairly quick but are prone to being stunted if in tanks too small for them which will reduce their lifespan to be honest.

I don't know how long it actually takes for them to fully grow but would guess no more than 4 - 6 years, they do live up to around 10 years so quite a long lived specie tbh.

 

[Saydums]

These silver sharks, really more commonly known as Bala sharks, they do grow fairly quick but are prone to being stunted if in tanks too small for them which will reduce their lifespan to be honest.

I don't know how long it actually takes for them to fully grow but would guess no more than 4 - 6 years, they do live up to around 10 years so quite a long lived specie

Thank you for the extra info