Heads Gone! New To Tropical Fish!

[rorylg]

Hi,
 
Brand new to keep fish and this forum looks more than useful, good few hours of reading to be done here.
 
Although i feel like i've got off the the wrong start?
Followed my local aquatics store adive andddd:
 
Bought a start up tank kit (50L tank, filer, heater and water treatment)
 
Gravled it, put a plant on wood in etc, let it sit for a couple of days.
 
Went back to fish store, where after talking the guy meant to sell me a Biological Supplement (3 day treatment)
He said i'd be fine to do this with a couple of fish in.
 
So i left there with the treatment, fish food 2 platies and a lyretail molly (i think).
 
Fish have now been in the tank 4 days and seem to be doing fine, been feeding every other day.
 
Questions being:
 
Have i done this wrong? After reading about the fishless cycle on here, i think i may have.
 
Would i have noticed by now if the fish had any ill affects?
 
Do i need anything else to put in the water? and how often should i do a 20% water change/filer clean?
 
Any help greatly appreciated!
 
 

 

[the_lock_man]

Welcome to the forum and welcome to the hobby.
 
I would expect that the majority of people do the same as you. It's not "wrong" as such, but a fishless cycle is a better way of doing things.
 
What you need to do now (and I mean as soon as you possibly can) is to buy yourself a liquid test kit. Most people recommend the API range (although I personally use the Salifert and Nutrafin ranges), you need to be able to test for ammonia and nitrite, and you need to test the pH of the water.
 
Since you can't yet do so, I would suggest doing the water change thing every day. Whilst those fish aren't too big at the moment, they are too big for a 50l, and in such a small tank, the ammonia excreted by the fish becomes a high concentration much quicker than in a big tank.
 
Would you have noticed any problems? Depends on how severe they are. In nature, any animal which exhibits a weakness is the one that is targetted by predators, so it isn't always easy to tell, certainly if the issue isn't too severe. If you notice the fish being lethargic, or gaping at the surface, or breathing quicker than usual, then these are common symptoms of ammonia and/or nitrite poisoning.
 
Up at the top of this forum section is a link entitled "Beginners Resource Centre" - have a read of some of the articles in there, particularly about the nitrogen cycle, this will be very helpful.

 

[fm1978]

Wrong is a strong word!
 
It's more difficult and time consuming (and pant wetting) to do a fish-in cycle than to do fishless, but, if you're being given advice by people whom you trust, then it's hard to actually blame you for doing it 'wrong'.
 
The absolute ideal situation is if you could take the fish back and start a proper fishless cycle by following the article on here by Two Tank Amin to the letter. Once that's done in maybe a month or so you can fully stock your tank. It also gives you plenty time to plan your stocking list by researching what you like, what live happily together and what will work well with the water parameters in your area - hard/soft water, natural high/low pH etc etc...
 
Doing that will give you and your fish the best possible chance of getting off to a really good and safe start! 
 
As a minimum, you should have a water conditioner that removes chlorine/chloromines - sometimes they remove metals, too. You'll need a test kit that can check the pH, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate. And you'll also need a thermometer, if you don't already have one. 
 
Have a few reads at the cycling article here and also do some research of your own either for a better understanding or simply just to satisfy your curiosity that it's the right thing to be going. It's very rewarding in the end!

 

[Mamashack]

^^^^^ what they said!

to TFF, rory. Hope you manage to retrieve the situation you've unwittingly found yourself through poor advice. 
It is possible to do fish-in cycling, but far, far better to do it fishless, so if you can return them until you've managed it, that would be kinder to your fish in the long run.

 

[rorylg]

Thanks for the help!
 
Will get myself a testing kit in the morning, if the results are safe, think i'll try do a fish-in cycle.. as the other half picked the fish and she's rather fond

 
and i think with the fish in, it'd keep me more intrigued in the results and will probably end up in me becomig obsessed rather that binning the tank haha.
 
But i will stick buy the guides on this site, just for consistency, as googling has taught me everyone has a diffrent way of doing everything!
 
Cheers 

 

[Gruntle]

Hands up those who were talked into a fish-in cycle by their LFS? <raises hand>
 
You can manage a fish-in cycle, it's just a matter of keeping on top of the water parameters and preparing to do water changes as often as necessary. TTA has a couple of great articles on the subject in the Cycle Your Tank section.
 
Do you have any friends with a tank? If you can beg some mature filter media it will definitely help, no more than 1/3 of their media though. You can swap it for some of your own if necessary.

 

[CSnyder00]

Yes. Thanks for giving them that tip Fish Crazy. I used mature tank filter media to start my bacteria colonies for my tanks. Makes life much easier and the cycle much faster.

 

[b3cca]

I did exactly the same and it was pretty hard work doing a fish in cycle but honestly I learnt soo much by doing a fish in cycle as I was constantly monitoring levels, doing partial water changes I was sure getting plenty of practice on using test kits, using water treatments and temp matches.
 
Yes, After 4 days it will be fine but once things start to build up after a week or so then things can go from perfect to deadly very quickly so you have to be willing/able to test the water 2-3 times daily and be prepared to do more than one large daily partial water change when needed
 
Everybody has already given you great advice and I'll just add do not do any filter cleans or touch/remove any media at all, especially during cycling as this is where the majority of your bacteria will be trying to colonize and settle

 

[rorylg]

Got my test kit,
 
Ammonia 0
Nirate 50
Nitrite 0
GH 500
KH 270
pH >8.4!
 
 
I'm hoping the pH is the only one to be alarmed about?
 
Done a 25% water change and I will try get back to the store and start pH minus treatment tonight.
 
Only thing that bothered me was my De-Chlorinator said nothing about waiting? Just drop a ml in the bucket then add to tank?
Should i be waiting?
 
Can't thank you guys enough for your help!
Cheers

 

[Mamashack]

The only way to change your pH is to do a water change. Don't start messing about with adding chemicals especially with fish in there as it can so easily go pear-shaped! You need to be an expert to do that sort of thing. It's extremely difficult to get it right. 
Test your tap water and if that is high then you really should have fish that suit your tap water pH , not change your pH to suit the fish you want. 
Always look at what the fish need and then decide if you can offer it. If not, then don't get them. Shop with your head not your heart. Always do your research first.

 

[fluttermoth]

Totally agree with Mamashack; it's really best not to try and fiddle with pH and hardness, although going from low to high/soft to hard is much easier than the other way round.

There are lots of very lovely fish that like hard water anyway. Both mollies and platies do.

You don't need to wait for dechlorinator to work, just mix it in and it's done.

Do you know anyone else who keeps fish? If they have a healthy tank, you could ask them to donate some mature media from their filter, and put it yours. a healthy tank cna donate up to a quarter of the total mecia, as long as it's replaced.

That'll give you a small bacterial colony to start you off, and should make your cycle go much quicker; although I would still back up the other members and recommend a fishless cycle, if at possible.

 

[b3cca]

both types of fish you have in there like a higher PH anyways but be aware that any ammonia reading you get will be far far more toxic and deadly in your water with a higher PH than it would have been in water with a lower PH which makes your need for regular tests and large partial water changes even more essential