Having a bit of trouble...

[AquaBarb]

Hows things dude? Any improvement?

 

[Wills]

Hows things dude? Any improvement?

Oddly yes - the sub dominant male msobo died Friday night - obvious fighting. But after that the skittishness has calmed down for the rest of the day.

I’ve also switched food back I started on a small nt labs pelllet then went to a jbl stick around the time this started but started the nt labs pellet on Thursday so wonder if that’s something?

 

[Colin_T]

Bad food can cause bloating but male Mbuna fight and if there are 2 or 3 males, the smallest weakest ones die first. Tropheus are the same and you can start off with 10 young fish and end up with 1 male and a group of females.

 

[Wills]

Bad food can cause bloating but male Mbuna fight and if there are 2 or 3 males, the smallest weakest ones die first. Tropheus are the same and you can start off with 10 young fish and end up with 1 male and a group of females.

Yeah thats a couple of good points.

The change in food should have been a stronger thought! I had mainly used the NT Labs food which is the fine powder, but as this started to run out I started adding the JBL sticks until eventually I was just using the sticks and for some of the smaller fish this was a challenge to eat so I was trying to break them up but given their primitive digestive system I can see how big food will be an issue... from what I know they just have more or less a straight tube from mouth to well... you know... this does make sense for the three smaller fish I lost, though not one of the larger ones.

The aggression thing is definitely an issue with the number of males but its just been impossible to know in shops what I'm getting. I think the most recent death was just this unfortunate situation of male led hierarchies in these fish. I believe I now have 2 of these Msobo males left and each is in dominant male dress but they have two distinct territories in the tank but this is the first time its just been these two.

Wills

 

[Colin_T]

As you said, it's impossible to tell what sexes you are getting when buying young fish from a shop and it's just luck of the draw.

If it's any consolation, most people that keep Mbuna usually end up with one species per tank, and they end up with one male and a group of females.

 

[Wills]

As you said, it's impossible to tell what sexes you are getting when buying young fish from a shop and it's just luck of the draw.

If it's any consolation, most people that keep Mbuna usually end up with one species per tank, and they end up with one male and a group of females.

Or you come across people breaking all the Malawi 'rules' and having a 'successful' tank for 5-6 years... its definitely a bit of pot luck.

Things do seem better this week there is no doubt. Everytime I go past the tank they are all at the top of the water, at the glass, making the water boil to get my attention.

I'm still none the wiser what was going on... it could have been worms but I'm not sure... my guess and it is pure guess work is the aggression was stressing everyone out or it could have been the food?

 

[Wills]

I am a bit worried something is happening again. My largest Alpha male didnt eat when I fed them last night and this morning his colours have dipped a bit... I also noticed a stringy white poo.

I think there must be a problem now but I don't know how to proceed. I found this https://www.nt-labs.com/browse-products/indoor/aquariums/anti-internal-bacteria/ do you think its worth trying? NT Labs seems to be popular for medications.

I know all the issues with antibiotics in the UK but surely there is some kind product that is worth trying? I don't want to just be left with no real option.

Wills

 

[Colin_T]

You may as well give it a go. The sooner you get the medication in them the better. Internal problems like protozoa and bacteria do lots of damage to internal organs and waiting 24 hours usually means the fish dies even if you medicate it. So grab whatever you can and treat the tank. If it doesn't work and the same thing occurs in other fish, get some Metronidazole from a vet.

Section 1 and 2 of the following link have info on internal bacteria and protozoan infections.

What to do if your fish has Stringy White Poop.

Fish do a stringy white poop for several reasons. 1) Internal Bacterial Infections causes the fish to stop eating, swell up like a balloon, breath heavily at the surface or near a filter outlet, do stringy white poop, and die within 24-48 hours of showing these symptoms. This cannot normally be...

www.fishforums.net

 

[Wills]

You may as well give it a go. The sooner you get the medication in them the better. Internal problems like protozoa and bacteria do lots of damage to internal organs and waiting 24 hours usually means the fish dies even if you medicate it. So grab whatever you can and treat the tank. If it doesn't work and the same thing occurs in other fish, get some Metronidazole from a vet.

Section 1 and 2 of the following link have info on internal bacteria and protozoan infections.

What to do if your fish has Stringy White Poop.

Fish do a stringy white poop for several reasons. 1) Internal Bacterial Infections causes the fish to stop eating, swell up like a balloon, breath heavily at the surface or near a filter outlet, do stringy white poop, and die within 24-48 hours of showing these symptoms. This cannot normally be...

www.fishforums.net

Thanks Colin I’ll get it here tomorrow

Are there any other things other than internal bacterial that mean white poop?

 

[Colin_T]

The 3 things that cause stringy white poop in fish are:
1) internal bacterial infection. This causes fish to stop eating and bloat up overnight. the fish normally dies within a few days of this happening.

2) internal protozoan infection. This causes fish to eat but not as well as usual. The fish get skinny and waste away over a couple of weeks, then die.

3) intestinal worms. Fish eat normally and sometimes lose weight but can also get really fat if they are full of worms. If left untreated the fish eventually die from lack of blood and low blood pressure. This normally takes months to kill a fish.

More detailed info at the following link

What to do if your fish has Stringy White Poop.

Fish do a stringy white poop for several reasons. 1) Internal Bacterial Infections causes the fish to stop eating, swell up like a balloon, breath heavily at the surface or near a filter outlet, do stringy white poop, and die within 24-48 hours of showing these symptoms. This cannot normally be...

www.fishforums.net

 

[GaryE]

Mbuna can be grit your teeth and hang on fishkeeping. The stress problems, the normal maladies amplified by stress, the hierarchies - we pay to see that beauty. Every time I see a photo like yours, I'm tempted. And then I remember the white knuckle fishkeeping, and talk myself out of it.

I think you're at the try and see stage. We really are struggling in the growing post antibiotic era here, and in a recent thread, the possible usefulness of that med was pointed out to me, over my skepticism. It has data behind it. I hope it works.

 

[Wills]

The 3 things that cause stringy white poop in fish are:
1) internal bacterial infection. This causes fish to stop eating and bloat up overnight. the fish normally dies within a few days of this happening.

2) internal protozoan infection. This causes fish to eat but not as well as usual. The fish get skinny and waste away over a couple of weeks, then die.

3) intestinal worms. Fish eat normally and sometimes lose weight but can also get really fat if they are full of worms. If left untreated the fish eventually die from lack of blood and low blood pressure. This normally takes months to kill a fish.

More detailed info at the following link

What to do if your fish has Stringy White Poop.

Fish do a stringy white poop for several reasons. 1) Internal Bacterial Infections causes the fish to stop eating, swell up like a balloon, breath heavily at the surface or near a filter outlet, do stringy white poop, and die within 24-48 hours of showing these symptoms. This cannot normally be...

www.fishforums.net

This is interesting - from the first fish that died with white poop, it was definitely number 3, very fast bloating, white stringy poop and dead. This new male that has white poop and gone off his food is maybe 2 days in so far so we will see.

Mbuna can be grit your teeth and hang on fishkeeping. The stress problems, the normal maladies amplified by stress, the hierarchies - we pay to see that beauty. Every time I see a photo like yours, I'm tempted. And then I remember the white knuckle fishkeeping, and talk myself out of it.

I think you're at the try and see stage. We really are struggling in the growing post antibiotic era here, and in a recent thread, the possible usefulness of that med was pointed out to me, over my skepticism. It has data behind it. I hope it works.

Very interesting there is evidence for it! NT Labs seem to be doing really good stuff, I've seen a few writers and content creators I rate on the fish side recommending them. It was Nathan Hills quote on their product page that swung me round to this one over some of the other contenders.

 

[Colin_T]

This is interesting - from the first fish that died with white poop, it was definitely number 3, very fast bloating, white stringy poop and dead. This new male that has white poop and gone off his food is maybe 2 days in so far so we will see.

Rapid bloating, stringy white poop and death shortly after that is an internal bacterial infection.

 

[Wills]

Rapid bloating, stringy white poop and death shortly after that is an internal bacterial infection.

Thanks yeah so had the final stage of that this morning. Lost my alpha male Msobo Magunga which I'm quite gutted about.

Urgh don't know what to do... I mean I've got the meds and will keep on top of the tank but wondering what to do with this tank long term... In all honesty I might just say this tank is full now then once its treat I just keep on top of what I've got. I've had some babies so overtime its going to fill out anyway.

 

[Colin_T]

If any more fish start to show the same symptoms, take them to a fish vet and get them necropsied (animal autopsy). Get the vet to send cultures off to a lab and find out what it is. It could be something minor and easy to treat or something horrible like Fish TB. Until you find out what it is, I wouldn't add any more fish.