Hate This

[Geoff1991]

 

[kribensis12]

Not true.

Are you honestly saying that every old fish gets eaten or killed by another fish?
A large percentage yes, but no more than 80% in most circumstances.

The most natural thing to do in the circumstances of an aquarium would be to allow it to die of old age.

I wasn't saying every fish, I was saying that NOT every fish would die peacefully of old age in the wild.

Even so, thats natural, its how things work. Survival of the fittest. A human killing a fish isnt.

Human killing fish unnatural? Humans are apex predators. And not only do we hunt fish, we farm them.

With that said, I'd be inclined to let it die of its own accord anyway.

It's mans job to take care of all creation. If that involves killing a fish because were hungry, so be it. If that involves, euthinizing a pet fish because of a disease so be it. But euthinizing a old fish, just because it's old is cruel. That being said, out in the wild, almost all old fish get killed and eaten.

 

[MissFish]

Hi,
I am currently in the same predicament. i have a neon with a growth on its nose. it is loosing condition because it can barely eat.
the most know humane way of helping a fish to pass (that i know of)
place in bag with water, add a few drops of clove oil, this puts the fish into a sleep,
then add some neat vodka it will overdose the fish in its sleep and die,
i am not saying that you should kill fish, i am in the same point. i want the neon to live as long and happy life as possible, but how humane is it to keep in an aquarium with no natural predators, which in the wild would have eaten the fish a long time ago therefore it would not be starving to death.
it is not a good decision however would you let a dog lie infront of you and slowly starve to death because it could not eat i know you would not want to do this to a human, but we have technology where we can transplant hearts and save a person, does anyone perform cosmetic surgery for neons?
Please dont think i am being funny just dont like to make hard decisions and like to look at the siutation objectively.
Hope my little rant helps, it certainly is helping me voice my troubles while watching my neon.
MissFish

 

[rdd1952]

I agree with letting it pass on it's on as it appears to still be getting along okay other than just lethargic. There are times however that euthanizing a fish is the right thing to do just like with any pet. Comparing them to humans isn't a fair comparison. I have had to have pets put down and have done the same thing with fish.

If a fish is obviously struggling as the often do with age such as when they have swim bladder issues. They either can't stay upright, float to the top or sink to the bottom, making it very difficult for them to swim or eat. At that point, in my opinion, it's time to put them out of their misery. For smallish fish, it's pretty simply. Put them in a small zip-loc bag, take them straight outside, and simply crush them with a rock or brick. It sounds gruesome but it's quick and with them in the bag, it's not messy. For larger fish, you can put them in a small container containing clove oil. The clove oil basically puts them to sleep and then you can put them in the freezer. If you do a search for euthanize, you will find numerous threads on the subject.

 

[Jallen]

Hi,
I am currently in the same predicament. i have a neon with a growth on its nose. it is loosing condition because it can barely eat.
the most know humane way of helping a fish to pass (that i know of)
place in bag with water, add a few drops of clove oil, this puts the fish into a sleep,
then add some neat vodka it will overdose the fish in its sleep and die,
i am not saying that you should kill fish, i am in the same point. i want the neon to live as long and happy life as possible, but how humane is it to keep in an aquarium with no natural predators, which in the wild would have eaten the fish a long time ago therefore it would not be starving to death.
it is not a good decision however would you let a dog lie infront of you and slowly starve to death because it could not eat i know you would not want to do this to a human, but we have technology where we can transplant hearts and save a person, does anyone perform cosmetic surgery for neons?
Please dont think i am being funny just dont like to make hard decisions and like to look at the siutation objectively.
Hope my little rant helps, it certainly is helping me voice my troubles while watching my neon.
MissFish

This is completely different.
OP's fish is dying of old age.
Your fish is dying of an affliction.

It's moral to kill your fish but not a fish dying of old age IMO.
Just like I feel it's moral for human euthanasia if they are terminally ill but not if they are simply old.

 

[MissFish]

Hi,
I am currently in the same predicament. i have a neon with a growth on its nose. it is loosing condition because it can barely eat.
the most know humane way of helping a fish to pass (that i know of)
place in bag with water, add a few drops of clove oil, this puts the fish into a sleep,
then add some neat vodka it will overdose the fish in its sleep and die,
i am not saying that you should kill fish, i am in the same point. i want the neon to live as long and happy life as possible, but how humane is it to keep in an aquarium with no natural predators, which in the wild would have eaten the fish a long time ago therefore it would not be starving to death.
it is not a good decision however would you let a dog lie infront of you and slowly starve to death because it could not eat i know you would not want to do this to a human, but we have technology where we can transplant hearts and save a person, does anyone perform cosmetic surgery for neons?
Please dont think i am being funny just dont like to make hard decisions and like to look at the siutation objectively.
Hope my little rant helps, it certainly is helping me voice my troubles while watching my neon.
MissFish

This is completely different.
OP's fish is dying of old age.
Your fish is dying of an affliction.

It's moral to kill your fish but not a fish dying of old age IMO.
Just like I feel it's moral for human euthanasia if they are terminally ill but not if they are simply old.

I agree with the old age thing, however as it gets older my point would be simply when its quality of life is at question. If it is simply fadeing away then yes wait until it starts to struggle, maybe stops eating or gets infection which is fare more prone inolder fish, maybe isolate and then make decisions. I certainly would not like to think i ended a life too early because i did not want to watch it die, but also making the timely decision for the fish not to suffer

 

[JohnRossDele]

three words

"dont kill it!!"

you have to understand that just because it is old dosent mean it may be in the same condition as a diseased or something similar fish which frankly would be better if you put them to sleep, since it is just old and may look wobbly or skinny dosent mean that u should kill it, same with ppl. end of story!

 

[coldcazzie]

I've euthanised a fish before now, but only one and only because she was ill with no hope of recovery and I didn't want her to suffer (same as I would do with my other pets).

If all that is wrong with him is age then let him live his final days with the shrimp for company - if nothing else can bother him it's not like he'll get bullied, so leave him to it. You've essentially put him in a retirement home. Let him enjoy his retirement. He'll go when he's ready

 

[Whitester]

I agree, it aquariums we try to mimic a fishes natural habitat, right?

In the wild, they would die naturally, so why send them off early for no good reason.

But you are forgetting a very important thing about nature. In Nature, fish that degrad in health, become weak or slow, get eaten very quickly. So one could argue that the fish that is old, weak and dying is INDEED suffering for far too long. Because in the wild the fish wouldn't make it as long to suffer a slow painful death.

 

[OldMan47]

You are probably right about a fish's chances in the wild Whitester. I have an old breeding molly that is also looking pretty bad in her age. Her scales have taken on an unhealthy color and the shape of her head is a bit off compared to a year or so ago when she was my prime molly bearer. Our fish live in a very different environment to a wild fish. Their lives in our tanks are safer than a typical environment and they often live longer than they might in the wild but their lives in our tanks are also very short on individual freedoms the fish might experience in the wild and are certainly poor on things like the variety of foods available. My fish lead a life so different to a wild fish that I refuse to compare them just when it suits me. I breed fish for my own reasons and most of the fry survive, not just enough to replace the parents as you would expect in the wild. When they have served my needs for well over a year like my old girl has, she deserves more rthan to be tossed in the bin because she is no longer young and attractive. Until she shows definite signs of suffering, she has a home in one of my tanks. End of discussion for me.

 

[H. Houdini]

I always read threads like this with huge interest.

It always amuses me how, despite many being objective on a very difficult subject, others can get quite overbearing as if they have some sort of moral high-ground.

I find the comparison of the lives of our fish with those of other pets and/or humans to be a little outrageous. For a start, I'd love to be able to choose the time and manner of my passing. I for one do not wish to be spending my last days unable to get around or feed myself, dribbling into my own lap. I'm sure many other people have the same opinion. Also, I wouldn't shut a cat in my bedroom cupboard, vac it's bedding once a week and allow it a 25% air change at the same time. Even worse, when it started to look like it had taken enough and was about to pass on, I sure as hell wouldn't think; " Yeah, but I should let it happen naturally". Do you see how ridiculous this argument looks? Nothing about our fishes lives is natural.


Each person has their own theory on what is right or wrong, and who the hell am I to inflict/impose my beliefs on others. It is part of what is so wrong in our world today.

As a side note, anyone willing to preach about their dissatisfaction with others on this subject needs to take a good look in the mirror. We are all in this hobby because we love our fish, but quite how some can belittle others on the merits of euthanasia of fish astounds me. We keep them in small spaces with little or no freedom remotely comparable to that of their natural environment. We, by doing this, limit the quality of the water and the abundance/variation of foods on offer. We cross breed and in breed them, often producing deformities (think of a balloon mollie as an example) which more often than not further limit the quality of life of the fish, indeed also shortening it's life. All this in the name of "beauty".

I love my fish like any of you/all of you.

No-one in this hobby has the moral high-ground, by default.

So if someone feels it's necessary, please don't bang on about it too much, or try to tell them how terrible they are. If you can't answer the question asked, don't bother.

Rant over.

Harry

 

[saz326]

Gosh - I didnt mean to raise this much attention! Neither did I intend the discussion to turn the ugly route of discussing Fish Euthenasia. But thanks all for the comments.


Its Selfish of me to be thinking in the way that I have been (and still am). I truely hate to see an animal/fish simply going downhill - even when there is no option to save/help it. He has always been a real little character but now that character has changed. He is old - and I guess feeling his age. He is quiet, and slow, and living his last days.

I guess my worst fear is that he would be in pain and I simply wouldnt know it. (Hence the "bopping off" dilema)..There are no signs of clamping or any of the other symptoms that come when a fish is hurting. But I wouldnt want him to feel hunger for example. Hunger is a different type of pain.. He eats, but not a lot. Like my grandparents - enjoy treats but cant be bothered with a boring meal.

He is resting in the fry tank accompanied by shrimps large and small (cherries). He's comfortable I guess. Not being chased by other fish.... a matter of time now.

...cant believe I'm getting tearful over a 50p fish. Hes a little life tho.. And I love him.

Thanks all.