Hardy Fish - Practically No Filter!

[Prime Ordeal]

as a complete aside, up until quite recently I ran an overstocked tank with two external filters. Out of the 7 buckets available for media, I only filled one with ceramics (wanted the higher flow)......never had a water quality issue.

Do you mean that the only media you had was that one bucket of ceramic and nothing else?

 

[ZoddyZod]

Do you mean that the only media you had was that one bucket of ceramic and nothing else?

sorry no, the filters also had the pre-media sponges in place, but only 1 of the 7 buckets was filled with anything.

My point was that I had under utilized the available media space significantly, yet still found no traces of ammonia/nitrites.

 

[Prime Ordeal]

Do you mean that the only media you had was that one bucket of ceramic and nothing else?

sorry no, the filters also had the pre-media sponges in place, but only 1 of the 7 buckets was filled with anything.

My point was that I had under utilized the available media space significantly, yet still found no traces of ammonia/nitrites.

Ah OK.

Well I'm not really surprised. Seachem Matrix which has the highest SSA of any media (unless someone tells me different) at 700m[sup]2[/sup]/m[sup]3[/sup] is only about 50% more surface area than the equivalent volume of sponge media! So ceramics don't really up the area all that much.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

But everybody here always says that the bacteria in the substarte and decor are minimal, well everybody except me and a few other stalwarts who no longer accept many of the urban aquarium myths. Your gravel or sand, your decor, your plants are all home to the bacteria. And the better the circulation in a tank, the more bacteria can and will thrive in places beside the filter- assuming the bio-load requires it.

All the bacteria want is food and oxygen, bring that to them anywhere in a tank and they will colonize and thrive as long as the food and O keep arriving.

But even if only 20% of one's total bacteria lived outside of the filter(s) this may not be a problem. Since both ammonia and nitrite oxidizers can double in under a day, 20%x2= 40% x2= 80% x2= fully up to par in under three days. If one did not test, the only way to know there might be a problem is if you saw fish showing symptoms of either ammonia or nitrite poisoning.

Which brings things to another topic- exactly how toxic are ammonia and nitrite? The answer depends on what fish, what levels of ammonia and nitrite and then what pH and tank temp. Many fish will get through short term ammonia/nitrite readings with no permanent damage and only minimal short term issues as well. It is always best not to subject fish to any levels of ammonia or nitrite, but it is also realistic to know the difference between doing irreparable harm and merely causing short term discomfort. Think of it this way. If a bus goes by as your walking in the street the exhaust fumes may be unpleasant, may make you sneeze and, if its a bad day with many buses, even give you a headache. This is a lot different than if you lock yourself in the garage, start your car engine and then sit there until you asphyxiate.

 

[Prime Ordeal]

Completely off topic so please delete when resolved.

Zoddyzod, I have this message when I go into personal messages:


[#10227] You are not allowed to use the private messaging system.

I've tried to contact several mods but, of course, without access to the message system I can't.

I just want to know whether it's a fault or whether I've been banned from the message system.

Thanks

 

[mrlewis1978]

If this helps the topic/discussion, the flow of the filter is quite high through the tank as it is suitable for up to 215 litres so almost doubly over filtering(as per manufacturer). I have it turned onb full as the fish like swimming in it. Also until recently there was quite a powerful airstone which I had buried under my sand substrate and blew up over the bog wood to the surface.

 

[FishFanatic04]

very very interesting.

That tank certainly doesn't look like it contains enough plant life to replace the baceria colony of a filter. My guess is that there is enough surface area within the filter housing for a colony to have established. Bacteria doesn't have to live on ceramics or sponges (which are plastic themselves) so they might just be surving on the filters internal features......that's my guess anyway.

That was what I was thinking when I saw this thread yesterday.

 

[Prime Ordeal]

very very interesting.

That tank certainly doesn't look like it contains enough plant life to replace the baceria colony of a filter. My guess is that there is enough surface area within the filter housing for a colony to have established. Bacteria doesn't have to live on ceramics or sponges (which are plastic themselves) so they might just be surving on the filters internal features......that's my guess anyway.

That was what I was thinking when I saw this thread yesterday.

You may think that, but it wouldn't be true.

 

[FishFanatic04]

OK. I posted that before I refreshed and missed this whole pages comments...

Not referring to the OP's filter, but with my external the baskets all have small holes that the water passes from basket to basket through. I would think that even without media there would be plenty of room for bacteria to colonize in the trays.

Why not go further and think that the bacteria would colonize all through the tubing walls, and any other parts the water passes through.

 

[Prime Ordeal]

I would think that even without media there would be plenty of room for bacteria to colonize in the trays.

Why not go further and think that the bacteria would colonize all through the tubing walls, and any other parts the water passes through.

So you are proposing what I suggested earlier (in jest) that the filter people are just conning us into buying filter media?

The mind boggles!