Hardwater stock semi finals

[AilyNC]

I've got to say that I really really agree with Wills here. I feel that a lot of water parameter ranges stated on websites are highly inaccurate. They're almost always too restrictive, anecdotal, and unscientific. For example, I have never ever seen water parameters with citations (e.g. actual field measurements of water parameters taken from collection points for the fish, or water parameter measurements from major breeders of the fish).

Even when water parameter ranges are accurate, they ignore the fact that certain species that have been captive bred for generations can be perfectly comfortable in water parameters dramatically different than would be found in the wild.

On this forum and other forums, people make a big deal out of non-waste-based water parameters, and, for the most part, I think they're wasting their energy.

As a final note, you should definitely be basing your choices off the water parameters of the actual water in the tank, not the water as it comes out of the tap. After all, the fish will be in the tank not the tap. If the numbers in the tank are really different than the tap I would suggest measuring the hardness every day for a week (assuming you do weekly water changes) to get a clear idea of the hardness in the tank.

Thanks that's a good idea. I'll test hardness daily and see what's going on. I have only done two small changes to reduce ammonia during the cycle. Still cycling tank. The water sitting in my other tank matches the tap water hardness.

 

[seangee]

Thanks that's a good idea. I'll test hardness daily and see what's going on. I have only done two small changes to reduce ammonia during the cycle. Still cycling tank. The water sitting in my other tank matches the tap water hardness.

No point. Hardness (GH) does not change in the tank unless you have a calcerous substrate to increase it.

 

[threecharacters]

No point. Hardness (GH) does not change in the tank unless you have a calcerous substrate to increase it.

The OP mentioned that the tank measurement and the tap measurement were different in their original post. See below quote,

Tap water pH 7.6 (always 8 in tank) and GH is 337ppm (showing up in test in tank as 179ppm for some reason so not sure if this will throw out every thing on list).

I don't really understand why these would be different either? Could some kind of off-gassing be reducing the hardness?

 

[Ch4rlie]

No point. Hardness (GH) does not change in the tank unless you have a calcerous substrate to increase it.

IAL and bogwood and certain types of substrate can lower the pH, not sure on the gH but certainly tank water can differ from tap water.

Down to what you have in the tank that can raise or lower certain parameters.

I used to get pH of around 8.0 - 8.2 from the tap water, 24 hours after gassing off as well as a immediate test, near enough the same results and yet in my tank pH was generally 7.2 - 7.4 and that was down to have quite a few pieces of bogwood, IAL and Rooibos tea to darken the water so all these do have an effect.

As long as all parameters stays steady, no fluctuations then not a problem for livestock at all.

A good point actually.

 

[threecharacters]

I have an idea! GH is a measurement of divalent metal ions (e.g. Ca2+ and Mg2+) in the water. If something in the tank were taking these ions out of solution by binding to them then the GH would go down.

 

[ClownLurch]

I need the cypher. What's EDR? I'm too scared of livebearers and their fry. I like the white cloud but not the medaka. I'm very set on my mohawk buddies (Forktail blue-eyed Rainbowfish)

Emerald dwarf rasbora amongst other names. It’s the CPDs ”cousin”. As mentioned on here regularly it’s basically the same person in a change of clothes.

 

[AilyNC]

On the GH issue - this tank has Limpopo Black Sand & two Aquarium quartz rocks (an artificial stone), an Azalea root, a bonsai driftwood & another small piece of driftwood. None of these items should be lowering my GH. Some plants that shouldn't be an issue.

There's two differences with this and my other tank (apart from fish). One is that fluffy cotton/vaseline type wood bacteria. The other is the Riccia fluitans had a clear jelly like substance in them that is still in the water. I've mostly hovered it up but it's hard to fully get it. It was on the bottom of the plant & I didn't get wash it off properly.

I would appreciate help solving GH issue as I'd prefer a predictable GH take matched the source water.

I wonder if I need a large water change to try get all that weird jelly out. It's the biggest unknown in the system.

 

[AilyNC]

Emerald dwarf rasbora amongst other names. It’s the CPDs ”cousin”. As mentioned on here regularly it’s basically the same person in a change of clothes.

Sorry I think I asked you this before lovely fish but I couldn't find it in stock anywhere. I can ask the online shop if they can order in. The local places are useless for stock.

 

[AilyNC]

The jelly is the nutrient gel from the Riccia fluitans In-Vitro cup. Not sure that's causing drop in GH

So back to sand or driftwood. One piece is old & was in the other tank which never had fluctuations in GH.

One piece is the Azalea Root still floating. So maybe it's that. I could take it out and soak in bucket & do big water change.

I've seen nothing to suggest the bonsai driftwood would lower hardness.

And if it was the Limpopo Black Sand then wouldn't @seangee & @AdoraBelle Dearheart have had similar?

I think it's possibly from letting the Azalea float in the tank & having no significant water changes in the two weeks. (I did two small 26 litre changes to lower ammonia to 3ppm).

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

The jelly is the nutrient gel from the Riccia fluitans In-Vitro cup. Not sure that's causing drop in GH

So back to sand or driftwood. One piece is old & was in the other tank which never had fluctuations in GH.

One piece is the Azalea Root still floating. So maybe it's that. I could take it out and soak in bucket & do big water change.

I've seen nothing to suggest the bonsai driftwood would lower hardness.

And if it was the Limpopo Black Sand then wouldn't @seangee & @AdoraBelle Dearheart have had similar?

I think it's possibly from letting the Azalea float in the tank & having no significant water changes in the two weeks. (I did two small 26 litre changes to lower ammonia to 3ppm).

I haven't tested my GH in the tanks with the sand for a while, but it's an inert sand, so it wouldn't be changing any water parameters.

Edit: Meant to say that I do have a GH testing kit though, and will double check it for you when I can and let you know.

 

[AilyNC]

I haven't tested my GH in the tanks with the sand for a while, but it's an inert sand, so it wouldn't be changing any water parameters.

Edit: Meant to say that I do have a GH testing kit though, and will double check it for you when I can and let you know.

I think it's the Azalea root & maybe bonsai sinking or floating in the tank. In my other tank I sunk wood in buckets & chucked that water out. So maybe all the tannins sitting in one tank for nearly 2 weeks has impacted hardness.

I think that makes sense I reckon a big water change will help & there's no fish in so could wait for it all to sink & then do big water change.

I'm really tempted to hoover up all the rotting food and go slow silent cycle. I've plants growing already & adding another 5 plants plus 4 moss portions today or tomorrow. Bringing total to 11 plus 7 moss portions. That will include Frogbit.

 

[Wills]

I've got to say that I really really agree with Wills here. I feel that a lot of water parameter ranges stated on websites are highly inaccurate. They're almost always too restrictive, anecdotal, and unscientific. For example, I have never ever seen water parameters with citations (e.g. actual field measurements of water parameters taken from collection points for the fish, or water parameter measurements from major breeders of the fish).

Even when water parameter ranges are accurate, they ignore the fact that certain species that have been captive bred for generations can be perfectly comfortable in water parameters dramatically different than would be found in the wild.

On this forum and other forums, people make a big deal out of non-waste-based water parameters, and, for the most part, I think they're wasting their energy.

As a final note, you should definitely be basing your choices off the water parameters of the actual water in the tank, not the water as it comes out of the tap. After all, the fish will be in the tank not the tap. If the numbers in the tank are really different than the tap I would suggest measuring the hardness every day for a week (assuming you do weekly water changes) to get a clear idea of the hardness in the tank.

I think we agree on the lack of specificity on data especially on the higher end of the ranges. But I do think it is worth focusing on fish that fit closely to your tap water - a few generations of breeding in captivity is unlikely to overwrite centuries of evolution in the wild.

 

[Wills]

On the GH issue - this tank has Limpopo Black Sand & two Aquarium quartz rocks (an artificial stone), an Azalea root, a bonsai driftwood & another small piece of driftwood. None of these items should be lowering my GH. Some plants that shouldn't be an issue.

There's two differences with this and my other tank (apart from fish). One is that fluffy cotton/vaseline type wood bacteria. The other is the Riccia fluitans had a clear jelly like substance in them that is still in the water. I've mostly hovered it up but it's hard to fully get it. It was on the bottom of the plant & I didn't get wash it off properly.

I would appreciate help solving GH issue as I'd prefer a predictable GH take matched the source water.

I wonder if I need a large water change to try get all that weird jelly out. It's the biggest unknown in the system.

the jelly in the invitro cups are really pumped full of nutrients so really important to get as much as possible off as it can cause bad algae problems

 

[AilyNC]

the jelly in the invitro cups are really pumped full of nutrients so really important to get as much as possible off as it can cause bad algae problems

I'll crack the gravel hoover & net out during toddler nap time. I've most of it out but it's a tricky fracker to get.

I agree about using tap as guide for stock. I do think the floating Azalea & bonsai driftwood are possible cause of drop in GH. But a good water change should address that. It might mess up my ammonia/nitrite levels in the cycle but the good I chucked in as dose 2 has probably **** those up too high anyway.

 

[seangee]

I'll crack the gravel hoover & net out during toddler nap time. I've most of it out but it's a tricky fracker to get.

I agree about using tap as guide for stock. I do think the floating Azalea & bonsai driftwood are possible cause of drop in GH. But a good water change should address that. It might mess up my ammonia/nitrite levels in the cycle but the good I chucked in as dose 2 has probably **** those up too high anyway.

Have you done a re-test?
If you could reduce GH by putting something safe in the tank lots of people would be doing it and we would all love to know what it was (but speak to a patent lawyer before you go public )