Guppy or Endler guppy?

[Synergy0021]

I was given several guppies a month ago (fry included). One of the fry grew to look like this (image attached). Is this a guppy or endler guppy? I’m confused since the other fry do not have the tail pattern of this one. (Note: the black-ish thing on the fish’s body can turn into a solid black patch at times)

 

[Lynnzer]

Given that it was born of a guppy, it's unlikely to be an endler. There are many colour variations in the species and lackadaisical breeding and mix of fish species can throw up lots of different ones.

 

[Synergy0021]

Given that it was born of a guppy, it's unlikely to be an endler. There are many colour variations in the species and lackadaisical breeding and mix of fish species can throw up lots of different ones.

Actually, I'm uncertain whether it was born from a guppy. All I know is that it came in with Poecilia reticulata guppies when they were given to me (who knows whether the breeder I got them from had endler guppies... I might have to ask him if he does have endlers). Thanks for the advice

 

[Synergy0021]

Just noticed today, the guppy in question was swimming backwards trying to impress a female guppy in the same tank... the other males do not do that... perhaps an endler guppy behaviour?

 

[emeraldking]

I was given several guppies a month ago (fry included). One of the fry grew to look like this (image attached). Is this a guppy or endler guppy? I’m confused since the other fry do not have the tail pattern of this one. (Note: the black-ish thing on the fish’s body can turn into a solid black patch at times)

It's a male black bar endler.

 

[emeraldking]

Just noticed today, the guppy in question was swimming backwards trying to impress a female guppy in the same tank... the other males do not do that... perhaps an endler guppy behaviour?

Yes, endler males when trying to court, can swim backwards. Actually, they show the court dance around the female. Guppies don't court by swimming backwards but forward in a circle. So yes, you're right about the remark...

 

[Back in the fold]

I still don't understand the whole guppy endler thing. That division in nomenclature must have happened during one of my absences from the hobby. When I was starting out in 1965 every guppy looked like the one in your picture. Never saw a fancy guppy till the late 70's but then I do live in a backwater.

 

[FishkeeperDiscoWostit]

From the tail shape it looks like an endler guppy. Most endlers are smaller than most guppies, that is another way you can tell.

 

[emeraldking]

From the tail shape it looks like an endler guppy. Most endlers are smaller than most guppies, that is another way you can tell.

Not quite, tbh...
Endlers from both Cumana and Campoma region can have a short tail (even closed), or a single or a doublesword. So, the tail shape itself doesn't relate to an endler right away.
And the size difference is also not really a way to tell wether they're guppies or endlers. For there are also pure smaller guppy strains. But fortunately, you've been mentioning "most", instead of "all". This makes me happy...

 

[Synergy0021]

It's a male black bar endler.

A full endler? Or a hybrid?

Yes, endler males when trying to court, can swim backwards. Actually, they show the court dance around the female. Guppies don't court by swimming backwards but forward in a circle. So yes, you're right about the remark...

So it is indeed endler behaviour...

From the tail shape it looks like an endler guppy. Most endlers are smaller than most guppies, that is another way you can tell.

The fish is the same size as its guppy peers at around the same age as him. Image attached is a tuxedo guppy the same age as him (sorry if he looks pale, I took him to an ice cream tub for photos).

No wonder my little guy looks so much like the endler guppy below... he looks like that when all his blacks are showing. Guess sooner or later I'll get hybrids if he's a full endler.

Thanks for your advice guys

 

[emeraldking]

A full endler? Or a hybrid?

That's hard to tell. Black bar hybrids that will look exactly like a pure black bar endler is quite normal. The phenotypical traits of the black bar endler is dominant in inheritance, wether a pure black bar will be crossed to another endler or a guppy. The exact or similar phenotype of the black bar endler will occur. And "can" already occur in the F1 or later generations.
And those people who claim to see the exact difference between a black bar hybrid and a pure black bar endler are bluffing. I dare to put a pure black bar endler next to a exactly looking black bar hybrid. And you won't see the difference.
Only those hybrid specimens with another kind of caudal (shape and/or color) and/or body coloration are recognizable as being hybrids. Coloration in the dorsal doesn't say anything about the pureness of the specimen. For it's already been known that wild specimens can show coloration in the dorsal as well besides the clear dorsal.

So it is indeed endler behaviour...

It is...
But also endler hybrids "can" show the endler behavior. That depends per individual specimen wether the endler or guppy influence might be stronger. You can't tell beforehand...

 

[Synergy0021]

That's hard to tell. Black bar hybrids that will look exactly like a pure black bar endler is quite normal. The phenotypical traits of the black bar endler is dominant in inheritance, wether a pure black bar will be crossed to another endler or a guppy. The exact or similar phenotype of the black bar endler will occur. And "can" already occur in the F1 or later generations.
And those people who claim to see the exact difference between a black bar hybrid and a pure black bar endler are bluffing. I dare to put a pure black bar endler next to a exactly looking black bar hybrid. And you won't see the difference.
Only those hybrid specimens with another kind of caudal (shape and/or color) and/or body coloration are recognizable as being hybrids. Coloration in the dorsal doesn't say anything about the pureness of the specimen. For it's already been known that wild specimens can show coloration in the dorsal as well besides the clear dorsal.

It is...
But also endler hybrids "can" show the endler behavior. That depends per individual specimen wether the endler or guppy influence might be stronger. You can't tell beforehand...

I see... So I may have to inquire from the breeder of its lineage then... Thanks again for your advice.

 

[emeraldking]

So I may have to inquire from the breeder of its lineage then...

That seems to be the best way to do...