Guppy Help!

[jeb55]

Greetings to all,
When I was younger I greatly enjoyed keeping fish; that was about 30 years ago. I have decided to pursue the hobby again and have found that much has changed. Sadly, things have not been going well and I will soon give up if I can’t cure whatever problem that I am having.

A little less than a year ago I set the tank up. It is a 90 gal. tank and I decorated it with a lot of very pretty rocks and all plastic plants. After the water cycled I began to add fish and all was well. Nothing too exotic; plecos, tetra, corys, catfish, botia, etc. It was very pretty to look at except for the plastic plants, so I decided to replace them with real plants. I planted 18 plants; ferns, swords, wisteria, etc. Now it really looked good; the fish were happier, the water chemistry was great and I had no problems at all.

When I first bought fish it was to give the tank some life. Now that things were growing and stable I had to decide exactly what kind of fish I wanted to keep permanently. Guppies!!! I bought a few guppies and saw that there was going to be some trouble so I removed everything except the corys, plecos, and the guppies. My lfs is not so local (150 miles round trip) so I would buy about a dozen fish each trip until the tank was stocked. After a while (some weeks) they began to get sick and die. I couldn’t identify a specific disease, only that they would get lesions and rot away. No meds seemed to help. After much head scratching I turned my attention to their environment and the very pretty rocks… that were in fact, very pretty mineral specimens!! Covealite, pyrite, stibnite, quartz in matrix, etc. It was indeed very pretty to look at but, the poor fish were being poisoned by heavy metals! I removed all of the minerals and did everything that I should do to clean the tank and make it safe.

All of the original stock have died out over time. There were births and some of them are now adults and I have continued to add new fish trying to keep the population at about fifty fish. There was a period of about six weeks that I did not loose any fish, however, they have started to die again but with almost no symptoms at all. A fish will separate it’s self and in three days to a week or so it will be dead, no symptoms except separation and sometimes labored breathing, especially when close to death. It doesn’t matter if I leave them in the tank or move them to a hospital tank, they still die. I have tried several different treatments and meds in desperation and nothing works, they still die. They are dying at a rate of 1-3 per week and I am down to about 20 fish.

I have spent hundreds of dollars on these fish and can not continue to do so. Any help that you may offer would be greatly appreciated!! If they die out, I will break the tank down and put it away or sell it to recover some of my “substantial” investment.

For the record; the water chemistry is perfect, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, ph, salts, all where they should be. Water changes and vacuuming are done regularly with stress relievers and water conditioners added. Temperature is a constant 77%. I currently have two fish that have separated themselves from the rest and will soon die!

???

Thank you for any assistance,
John

 

[NaughtyT]

I had exactly the same symptoms with my guppies and in the space of 2 weeks i lost over 40,but all other fish were fine,water stats were fine.

I was told to put it down to poor quality fish due to inbreeding.

I currently have around 10 guppy fry that were given birth to the night before my last 2 adult guppies died,they have all survived and are growing fast,except for the baby guppies i have given up on trying to keep them.

 

[Colin_T]

Hi John and welcome to the forum

Can you provide a picture of the sick fish?

Guppies are quite a weak fish these days due to inbreeding. This makes them susceptible to diseases (primarily bacterial and protozoan infections). Quite often the adults will breed and then die but the young do quite well.

Having minerals in the water shouldn't normally be a problem but heavy metals will poison fish by damaging their liver and kidneys. Regular water changes and gravel cleans should help prevent the rocks from causing too many problems (poisoning). Having carbon in the filter would help as well but if you removed the offending rocks, then the poisoning should have stopped.
Heavy metals will usually affect catfish and loaches before it affects guppies. Are any of the catfish and loaches still alive or have they been dieing as well?

The fish could have Tuberculosis (TB). This is a slow growing bacterium that kills a fish every now and then. Most fish can carry the disease for a long time (6-18 months) before it kills them. Then the infected fish usually bloats up (gets really fat overnight), sometimes does a stringy white poo, stops feeding, might get a bent back, breathes heavily and dies within a few days of showing these symptoms.
TB is virtually impossible to treat but doesn't kill lots of fish rapidly. So if you are losing lots of fish within a short space of time, it is probably something else.

How often do you do water changes and how much water do you take out?
How often do you clean the filter and how do you do it?
Do you use bore water or mains water?
What do you add to the new water when you do water changes?
Do you clean the substrate?
What do you feed the fish and how often do they get fed?
Does anyone smoke or paint in the room with the fish tank in?
Do you have any creams or anything on your hands when you work in the tank?
Do you have a bucket that you only use for the fish?
How are the fish packed when you buy them, (ie: are they bagged up with oxygen and put in an esky to keep warm)?

 

[Athena]

Oh dear, sorry to hear you're having such a bad time with losing fish at the moment.

Will need to ask a few questions...

1. How often do you do water changes and how much?

2. Do you clean your filter sponge at all/how often and what method?

3. Do any of these fish have clamped fins? Sunken bellies or looking thinner?

4. What type of test kit do you use? Can you post exact stats for us and tell us when the last test was taken?

5. When did you last add a batch of fish and how many did you add? Can you also list all the fish you had (just so we can double check you were not overstocked in any way).

6. Can you list all the meds that you have used so far.

Thanks!

Athena

 

[jeb55]

Water stats for today.
PH 7.9
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 5.0
Temp 77%
API Master Freshwater kit.

Today is water change day and I will be replacing 30 gal. This is done weekly. The water is treated with API stress coat + and the lost salts are replaced. When I change the water I also vacuum the gravel.

My filter is a Fluval 400 series. I clean it every two months by rinsing the particulate from the bio media and replacing the carbon and the polishing pads.

I used to see clamped fins a lot before I realized that the minerals were toxic and removed them. Now I only see them occasionally and only after a fish has separated it’s self, if at all.

It is not possible for me to post a picture and that would be of no help anyway. That’s the part that makes it so tough. The fish display no symptoms at all. They don’t change or look any different! That’s why I made the point that when the tank was toxic all of the fish died with lesions and the body rotting away. Very, very visible and easy to see! These fish die looking perfectly healthy, no lesions, no rotting, no fuzz or cotton, no discoloration, no sores, no missing parts, no gill problems, no parasites, no bloating, no abnormal behavior except that they separate themselves from the other fish and sometimes breathe heavily (pant) before they die.

It has been over a month since I have purchased any new fish and when I did it was a dozen. I had my share of problems with new pet store fish; fungus problems, fin rot and such and always lost some of the fish within a week of purchase. After some months of trial and error I learned that a two hour soak in a stiff salt and nitrofurazone bath stopped the immediate loss of new fish and I see no more cotton or rot. After a few weeks to a month, they just start to die off one at a time and with no symptoms!

I did lose 1 upside-down cat and one peppered cory. They both produced lesions and rotted away, but the rest; 4 plecos, 5 corys, and 1 upside-down cat have done well and appear to be healthy.

The tank has never had more than 50 guppies in it at any given time, though I would guess that I have purchased maybe 200 in the past year and there have been many births.

The tank is fed flake food (twice daily), shrimp pellets, algae wafers, and different fresh vegetables daily (romaine lettuce, squash, cucumber, fruit, etc.).

All related equipment is kept separate and clean and there are no contaminates. I rarely put my hands directly in the tank because it’s too deep to reach the bottom. Usually at water change time is when I adjust anything in the tank that needs it, and only after I have cleaned my hands and arms. Nets are disinfected after each use.

I use common sense in maintaining my tank and I am fairly knowledgeable about the hobby though the knowledge is from years past. Some of the equipment has changed and there are some new fish, but the basics are the same and water chemistry never changes.

I have noticed that a lot of the guppy breeds are new to me and some that I used to see are not around anymore. As some posters responded, I am starting to think that it is perhaps breeding problems. I see that there is a lot more color in the females now and that was not so in the past.

Also, the original fish that were in the tank before the guppies, were moved to two smaller tanks and there have been no problems with them. I only moved them because the pictus cats and the botia were after the guppies, and everything including the tetra were eating the fry.

I hope that answers your questions. Like I say, any help would be appreciated.
Thanks again,
John

 

[Colin_T]

Hi John

re: The water is treated with API stress coat + and the lost salts are replaced. What sort of salts do you add?
How much do you add, (ie: do you only add salt for the new water going in, or do you add salt for the entire tank volume?)

You mention that you clean the filter every two months by rinsing the particulate from the bio media and replacing the carbon and the polishing pads. Do you rinse it under tap water or wash it out in a bucket of tank water?
If you are washing it under tap water you could be killing the beneficial filter bacteria. This combined with replacing the carbon/ polishing pads, could be causing ammonia or nitrite readings, which could be contributing to the problems.

Clamped fins are usually caused by bacterial or protozoan infections. Poor water quality can also cause it.

Do you use tap water for the water changes? If yes, do you have chlorine or chloramine in your tap water? And does the API stress coat remove chlorine or chloramine?

Have you bought all your fish from the same shop?
How are the fish packed when you buy them, (ie: are they bagged up with oxygen and put in an esky to keep warm)?

What are the nets disinfected with?